Suunto 9 vs Ambit 3 Peak

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

@sky-runner the bugs at the navigation you mentioned are fixed in the latest or before release , which were not.bugs really but depending on user preference.

Brad_Olwin

I said I wouldn’t but I’ll jump in again. I owned every version of Ambit and still have the A3P. Below is why I use S9B always. In order of importance.

Navigation: zoom on route, distance on route not as crow flies (this makes A3P worthless for real navigation with routes), waypoints, amazing integration with SA, heatmaps, etc.
Battery life and FusedTrack. FusedTrack is magic!!! Changed my ultra running forever!
Intervals on watch and SuuntoPlus allow for flexible and automatic recording of complex workouts.
Intensity zone ring. No longer need a field for HR/Power/Pace, use zone rings for workouts.
Readability of screen (only need one or two screens not 4)
FirstBeat metrics, 24/7 HR.

the A3P falls seriously short on all of these, for me there is simply no comparison.

Brad_Olwin

@amasidlover said in Suunto 9 vs Ambit 3 Peak:

Also missing from S9…

Swimming drill mode (ability to add laps in kick sets)

straight line direction and distance to next waypoint when navigating (useful when there is no track…)

#2 is not missing on S9 and is accessible by using SuuntoPlus Bearing.

amasidlover

@Brad_Olwin Interesting is that new? Its not listed in the manual https://www.suunto.com/en-gb/Support/Product-support/suunto_9/suunto_9/suuntoplus/ the closest I can find in the manual is the ability to chose a bearing then select a distance (on the watch) and navigate towards it.

Whereas when fell running with the A3P I will create a course with key waypoints on it and then use the ‘next waypoint’ screen that shows the bearing and straight-line-distance to the next waypoint and I navigate the best route there based on the conditions underfoot.

BTW that’s not to say that I’m dismissing anyone’s view who appreciates the ‘actual distance’ over maintained trails - I can absolutely see the use cases for that - ideally I’d like a watch that could do both…

Efejota

@Brad_Olwin How do you do that? Bearing requires for you to point to the point (sorry) and manually enter the distance, AFAIK. I thing that @amasidlover referred to the possibility to navigate in straight line to a certain waypoint in a route or predefined POI (not yet possible)

sartoric

@Efejota
If you have S9 (so Suunto plus ) you have bearing screen.

Otherwise you can use common navigation functionality

sky-runner

@sartoric The main issue with SuuntoPlus, and that is why it seems like a gimmick to me, is that you have to decide on it in advance and select one, and only one, SuuntoPlus feature before an activity. That is a serious design flaw. Many of them should be selectable on demand, when needed and only when needed, and the limit should be higher than one. And without the proper customization the whole thing still seems half baked.

@sky-runner said in Suunto 9 vs Ambit 3 Peak:

@sartoric The main issue with SuuntoPlus, and that is why it seems like a gimmick to me, is that you have to decide on it in advance and select one, and only one, SuuntoPlus feature before an activity. That is a serious design flaw. Many of them should be selectable on demand, when needed and only when needed, and the limit should be higher than one. And without the proper customization the whole thing still seems half baked.

I wasn’t aware of what suunto plus was . Yesterday saw some videos explaining it.
Ended up with the same opinion as you.
Also I questioned myself why they aren’t threated as normal feature and why can’t we have more than one at same time.
Hardware not capable ? (Like the original ambit it the apps)

Brad_Olwin

@sky-runner said in Suunto 9 vs Ambit 3 Peak:

@sartoric The main issue with SuuntoPlus, and that is why it seems like a gimmick to me, is that you have to decide on it in advance and select one, and only one, SuuntoPlus feature before an activity. That is a serious design flaw. Many of them should be selectable on demand, when needed and only when needed, and the limit should be higher than one. And without the proper customization the whole thing still seems half baked.

Not for the bearing function, it is in Navigation and can be used at any time. The others, Suunto is aware that starting SuuntoPlus mid exercise is a high priority request.

Brad_Olwin

@amasidlover said in Suunto 9 vs Ambit 3 Peak:

@Brad_Olwin Interesting is that new? Its not listed in the manual https://www.suunto.com/en-gb/Support/Product-support/suunto_9/suunto_9/suuntoplus/ the closest I can find in the manual is the ability to chose a bearing then select a distance (on the watch) and navigate towards it.

That is correct

Whereas when fell running with the A3P I will create a course with key waypoints on it and then use the ‘next waypoint’ screen that shows the bearing and straight-line-distance to the next waypoint and I navigate the best route there based on the conditions underfoot.

Typically I cannot go straight to the bearing as there are cliffs/rivers/mountains, etc in the way that I cannot see. I do see why POIs marked on a map and stored on the watch are useful. One of the most annoying issues for me with A3P is the waypoint showing straight line distance, while the actual distance on the route was much, much further away. I think that POIs are coming, that would solve the issue for you.

ishi2ka

@Brad_Olwin I may misunderstand that structured workout can’t be built on S9. May I reconfrim that you can build A3P equivalent workouts on S9? In that case, my appology. I will post after decent understanding from now.

Brad_Olwin

@ishi2ka No, you can build simple interval workouts. SuuntoPlus can automatically track complex intervals but you cannot build complex intervals per se. Frankly, most of the group I run with have Garmins and they never build complex workouts…I fail to see why this is such a critical issue when the watch will record them. When I build them I invariably cannot follow them exactly and then the workout is hosed. Much easier to remember and use the lap button or use SuuntoPlus and no lap buttons.

@ishi2ka said in Suunto 9 vs Ambit 3 Peak:

@Brad_Olwin I may misunderstand that structured workout can’t be built on S9. May I reconfrim that you can build A3P equivalent workouts on S9? In that case, my appology. I will post after decent understanding from now.
Well explained here https://youtu.be/XBlk4djDc90

@Brad_Olwin said in Suunto 9 vs Ambit 3 Peak:

@ishi2ka No, you can build simple interval workouts. SuuntoPlus can automatically track complex intervals but you cannot build complex intervals per se. Frankly, most of the group I run with have Garmins and they never build complex workouts…I fail to see why this is such a critical issue when the watch will record them. When I build them I invariably cannot follow them exactly and then the workout is hosed. Much easier to remember and use the lap button or use SuuntoPlus and no lap buttons.

When you are in lockdown, have a cycling training plan and home trainer it starts to be useful
For Sure you can use a paper and pen. But for then no need to fork more than 400eur for a new watches. Again, uses are different and if Suunto told no is because their data on surveys told them so .
In my opinion I also don’t understand the necessity of Suunto plus wings for life. But if they did it it should be because it has the market.

Thanks for your great inputs !

Efejota

@sartoric I knew that. I was asking whether it is possible to use it for a selected waypoint (even in straight line) in the middle of an exercise like, for instance, if you lost the route as an aid to go back to the route. My understanding is that it is not possible (differently to what it was, sorry, is in A3P). To clarify, I agree that a route and waypoints are better in the sense that gives you a perfect distance, but I am considering a situation where that is not necessary (ie, that you will navigate the terrain on sight, but you need the reference on bearing to that point, like, for instance, in the middle of a forest).

ishi2ka

@André-Faria Thank you. I now seem to understand its degree of freedom (or complexity), though the language I don’t understand.

ishi2ka

@Brad_Olwin Let me try to respond to your question about “complex workout”. In my case I feel like I am with a coach, or someone who supports me when A3P guides like it can during the workout. Hard workouts require some will to execute. Will is strengthen when I have a supporter.
Why do I (not an elite athlete, just a foil to local champions) do such hard thing? That is the question I am given by my wife (and sometimes I ask myself…).
Anyway, thank your for your reply!

margusl

@Brad_Olwin said in Suunto 9 vs Ambit 3 Peak:

When I build them I invariably cannot follow them exactly and then the workout is hosed.

A3P Workouts (structured intervals) can be started / stopped / switched at any time during a single session, meaning that one can switch to structured interval once properly done with a warmup. Or if selected Workout doesn’t feel right for that day, just switch to another with different targets and/or repeats, no need to stop & start activity for that.
And it’s possible to set a lap as a target if variable length interval or rest is needed, most important bits - step description & guidance screen - are still there.

Training Peaks calls those “Open-Ended Steps” - https://help.trainingpeaks.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003385172
And it sure looks like Garmin does support the same approach - https://help.trainingpeaks.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001652912 (last column) - so it’s not something rare nor A3P-specific. Thus I’m bit confused about the need to “follow them exactly”

isazi

@margusl said in Suunto 9 vs Ambit 3 Peak:

A3P Workouts (structured intervals) can be started / stopped / switched at any time during a single session, meaning that one can switch to structured interval once properly done with a warmup. Or if selected Workout doesn’t feel right for that day, just switch to another with different targets and/or repeats, no need to stop & start activity for that.

Isn’t it the same for intervals on the S9? I remember it was this way last time I used this function (more than a year ago).

margusl

@isazi , idk, you tell me
Just for some reson people tend to discredit A3P structured intervals for things like “fixed length warmup does not really work for me” or “structured intervals are too strict to be useful (for group training)” and the like. I mean generally, not just in this thread. But those are more like user errors or restrictions set by users themselves, not some shortcomings set by Workout system.

Whoever defined how A3P Workouts should behave, came up with some absolutely brilliant ideas. Though locking the builder only into app was not one of those… But the flexibility of this thing is still nothing but awesome