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    Lockdown setting suunto 9

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Suunto 9
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    • isaziI Offline
      isazi Moderator @GingerBeardMan
      last edited by

      @GingerBeardMan I am just commenting because GPS is not made to give you accurate tracks in a confined space, and will never be, no matter how much battery power you may want to give up on your watch.

      Watch: Suunto Vertical Ti

      Blog: isazi's home

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
      • G Offline
        GingerBeardMan Bronze Member
        last edited by

        I was just looking at the GPX file exported from movescount and the time stamps show a GPS resolution that varies as high as 6 seconds in some cases. was wondering if there was a way to prioritize GPS to achieve closer to the 1 seconds resolution as advertised

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        • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
          Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager
          last edited by

          Please don’t confuse sampling rates with GPS. Most providers (even Strava ) linearly interpolate the distance. (to fill 1s)

          We don’t support gpx export btw. So you probably are using sports tracker data which are not compatible with what your watch records. They are too simplified and a different model.

          As it has been said before, you cannot really record small loops. The GPS avg error is about 7 meters. That means that if you don’t move more let’s say than a 7 meters in general it might error, thus no record of data.

          As it has been said before, GPS is not made for this kinda thing. Or at least yet, there is a chnace that maybe this chnages especially for BEIDOU.

          That said, you can try if you own a suunto 9:

          Use BEIDOU.

          Or you can try the fused track, eg enabling endurance mode.
          That will power up all internal things to do inertial GNSs extrapolation. It might work but maybe no. Give it a try and I am eager to see the results.

          Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
          Creator of Quantified-Self.io
          youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
          https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
          https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

          G 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • G Offline
            GingerBeardMan Bronze Member
            last edited by

            Hi Dimitrios,
            I tried Beidou with no noticable difference.
            I was just curious about the GPX data points(Sportstracker and movescount) because if I walk slowly, I get an accurate measurement, 160m out and back across the property(very accurate), when i run i get 110 to 130m per lap. This is why I suspected resolution rather than accuracy as I thought maybe the ends of each lap were being missed because they occurred between gps readings.
            I have resorted to using the watch to just count laps, had a problem this morning when I pushed the lap button for lap 62, the watch reset. I’ve never had my watch reset during a workout before.

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            • ? Offline
              A Former User @GingerBeardMan
              last edited by

              @GingerBeardMan said in Lockdown setting suunto 9:

              thanks, unfortunately i don’t own a stryd pod

              Get a regular footpod. I think Zwift one used to be like $25 and it’s reasonably accurate.

              G 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • G Offline
                GingerBeardMan Bronze Member @Guest
                last edited by

                @NickK total lockdown here. We can’t even order non-essentials online so, by the time I get it, I won’t need it😬

                ? isaziI 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • ? Offline
                  A Former User @GingerBeardMan
                  last edited by A Former User

                  @GingerBeardMan said in Lockdown setting suunto 9:

                  @NickK total lockdown here. We can’t even order non-essentials online so, by the time I get it, I won’t need it😬

                  Tough love! Can you claim footpod as essential? We are supposed to have all non-essential businesses closed where I live. Apparently, bakeries, liquor, and flower stores count among essentials. Because they all are very much opened.

                  G 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • isaziI Offline
                    isazi Moderator @GingerBeardMan
                    last edited by isazi

                    @GingerBeardMan even without the footpod, use the treadmill activity and swing your arms. Better than just laps 🙂

                    Watch: Suunto Vertical Ti

                    Blog: isazi's home

                    G 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • G Offline
                      GingerBeardMan Bronze Member @isazi
                      last edited by

                      @isazi attempted this but got same results. did try excessive arm swinging though 😉

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • G Offline
                        GingerBeardMan Bronze Member @Guest
                        last edited by

                        @NickK If only. we have the army enforcing lockdown, no cutting corners

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                        • G Offline
                          GingerBeardMan Bronze Member @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                          last edited by

                          @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos the fused track was much worse. I did 15km: 75x200m loops. My watch measured just over 9.5km and my trace was all over the neighborhood:)

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • G Offline
                            GingerBeardMan Bronze Member @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                            last edited by

                            @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos Sorry to be argumentative but the files exported from movescount show gaps of up to 8 seconds between data points I can’t imagine other manufacturers just fabricate 6 out of every 8 GPS points to achieve their advertised 1 second resolution. My Old Tomtom multisport is out performing my suunto 9. Is this just one of the costs of havin long battery life.

                            Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                              Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @GingerBeardMan
                              last edited by Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

                              @GingerBeardMan Hi please dont use GPX files (Why the obsession with that? ) . This is how GPS tracking works in all modern applications.

                              As an engineer on this subject with all the respect, because your Tomtom Did 1s interpolation doens’t mean that this is what happened neither what leading technology should do. I personally don’t like this type of argument. There are many reasons for that to happen on your old tom tom and mostly was not due to GPS but rather software extrapolation and interpolation on the export. (Yes I have worked on TomTom data 😉 )

                              Here is an example of loose records and how FIT files from Suunto app are generated. Movescount had many issues on this part and this functionality will go away

                              100:
                              timestamp: Sat Apr 04 2020 15:01:45 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) {}
                              position_lat: 49.87775534391403
                              position_long: 14.683535909280181
                              distance: 379.5
                              heart_rate: 162
                              altitude: 404
                              speed: 4.031
                              activity_type: "running"
                              cadence: 89
                              power: 287
                              accumulated_power: 34748
                              stance_time: 224
                              stance_time_balance: 48.5
                              vertical_oscillation: 93
                              vertical_ratio: 6.5
                              step_length: 1310
                              __proto__: Object
                              101:
                              timestamp: Sat Apr 04 2020 15:01:46 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) {}
                              position_lat: 49.87772106193006
                              position_long: 14.683511098846793
                              distance: 384
                              heart_rate: 163
                              altitude: 404
                              speed: 4.056
                              activity_type: "running"
                              cadence: 88
                              power: 283
                              accumulated_power: 35031
                              stance_time: 228
                              stance_time_balance: 47.2
                              vertical_oscillation: 91
                              vertical_ratio: 6
                              step_length: 1330
                              __proto__: Object
                              102:
                              timestamp: Sat Apr 04 2020 15:01:47 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) {}
                              position_lat: 49.877690551802516
                              position_long: 14.683481510728598
                              distance: 388.5
                              heart_rate: 163
                              altitude: 404
                              speed: 4.056
                              activity_type: "running"
                              cadence: 87
                              power: 289
                              accumulated_power: 35320
                              stance_time: 234
                              stance_time_balance: 48
                              vertical_oscillation: 95
                              vertical_ratio: 6.5
                              step_length: 1340
                              __proto__: Object
                              103:
                              timestamp: Sat Apr 04 2020 15:01:48 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) {}
                              position_lat: 49.87765618599951
                              position_long: 14.683452928438783
                              distance: 393
                              heart_rate: 162
                              altitude: 404
                              speed: 4.056
                              activity_type: "running"
                              cadence: 87
                              power: 295
                              accumulated_power: 35615
                              stance_time: 241
                              stance_time_balance: 48.8
                              vertical_oscillation: 100
                              vertical_ratio: 7
                              step_length: 1350
                              timestamp: Sat Apr 04 2020 15:01:49 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) {}
                              position_lat: 49.87762190401554
                              position_long: 14.683426190167665
                              distance: 397
                              heart_rate: 163
                              altitude: 404
                              speed: 4.056
                              activity_type: "running"
                              cadence: 88
                              power: 294
                              accumulated_power: 35909
                              stance_time: 241
                              stance_time_balance: 47.3
                              vertical_oscillation: 101
                              vertical_ratio: 7.2
                              step_length: 1350
                              __proto__: Object
                              105:
                              timestamp: Sat Apr 04 2020 15:01:50 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) {}
                              position_lat: 49.87758368253708
                              position_long: 14.6833985298872
                              distance: 401
                              heart_rate: 164
                              altitude: 404
                              speed: 4.056
                              activity_type: "running"
                              cadence: 90
                              power: 294
                              accumulated_power: 36203
                              stance_time: 242
                              stance_time_balance: 45.9
                              vertical_oscillation: 102
                              vertical_ratio: 7.5
                              step_length: 1350
                              

                              With all the respect:

                              • GPS polling on the watch happens every 1second.
                              • Depending on the signal quality and other errors the distance is calculated every 1s if possible (also accounting accelerometer)
                              • GPX files cannot export non tree stuctures meaning that for each track record you need to interpolate or remove other track records if there are no data. For example if you miss coordinates but you have distance you cannot create a trackrecord as they dont support track records without coordinates.
                              • FIT files is what you should use.

                              Some side notes:

                              • Running on a tarrace we dont measure the x,y you need to measure a circle by defining the radious.
                              • Running on a circle you will injure your self eventually if you dont change direction as one foot will push more than the other.
                              • GPS error is about ~5m in the best. If your tarrace is not >5m as of a radious I cannot imagine this can work with any equipemnt.
                              • Educate your self since you are on it about accuracy. Dual frequency antennas and what is possible. for 5m loops I am sorry but this is not possible. To get a kinda good GPS “circle” you need 5m + 5m = 10m radious at least! That is if you have the best GPS signal! In normal conditions it should be 7m + 7m = 14m radious.

                              Here is a site that can help you and here is the image of what I am talking about

                              https://fellrnr.com/wiki/GPS_Accuracy

                              Image of how accuracy works

                              Screenshot 2020-04-07 at 14.32.10.png

                              P.S. I am sorry if this sounds a bit agressive but I got a bit on my nerves because I tend to think that you are trying to create a problem for something that it’s not naturally possible in a way. I understand that and sorry.
                              PS1.5 Please don’t focus on the 1s GPX export, that is not the reason for your issue.
                              P.S2: Will a A3P work better than your S9? Perhaps. Perhaps even your old tom tom due to the antenna being external and patch (always looking at the sky)

                              Here is the problem with circular antennas and how sony solved it:

                              https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/e/products/lsi/gps/technology.html

                              Note this:

                              The targeted low-cost and low-power system design, along with the expected harsh operational environment, derived us to face exceptional GNSS signal reception conditions.

                              Sony Semiconductor Solutions GPS/GNSS receiver/processor chips use a proprietary positioning algorithm to enable accurate positioning in a challenging environment, such as the skyscrapers of Shinjuku (i.e., multi-path environment) and/or when running on an athletics track (i.e., body effect, such as arms swinging and swimming).

                              (I would google GNSS body effect if I was you )

                              18d38121-248f-4712-9576-1f14e0e9186d-image.png

                              Take it easy, be healthy and protect your self. I’ts more important to be healthy than to get perfect GPS on a tarrance. 🙂

                              Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                              Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                              youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                              https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                              https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                              • G Offline
                                GingerBeardMan Bronze Member
                                last edited by

                                I’m sorry if I’m pissing you off. Let me me just shut up and be happy with what I have.

                                Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                                  Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @GingerBeardMan
                                  last edited by

                                  @GingerBeardMan nah man. It’s all good. But just those comparisons like : Simpsons did it.

                                  On the contrary you gave place for some good analysis for tarrace runners.

                                  You didn’t piss me off per se, but rather step on nerves.

                                  It’s all good and it was my mistake to get nerves. I am the d528head here 🙈

                                  Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                                  Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                                  youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                  https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                  https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • G Offline
                                    GingerBeardMan Bronze Member
                                    last edited by

                                    I take my hat off to you and how you handle people like me on a daily basis. I see you dealing with it with admirable deplomacy.
                                    I am running a backyard ultra on saturday(goal of 90km). Based on my averages so 474 laps of my 190m(80x20x80x20) loop turns into 549 laps if I want proof that I covered the distance.
                                    Just looking for the best possible settings or maybe its a miracle I’m after;)
                                    P.S. I’ve been stuck in my house since 19 march so please excuse my behaviour😵

                                    Mff73M Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                    • Mff73M Offline
                                      Mff73 @GingerBeardMan
                                      last edited by

                                      @GingerBeardMan

                                      P.S. I’ve been stuck in my house since 19 march so please excuse my behaviour😵

                                      we are all in the same boat (same planet 🙂 ) .

                                      I am running a backyard ultra on saturday(goal of 90km). Based on my averages so 474 laps of my 190m(80x20x80x20) loop turns into 549 laps if I want proof that I covered the distance.

                                      I retire my words, we are not from the same planet 😲 👏

                                      Suunto Spartan Ultra (since 2016) FW: 2.8.24 (retired)
                                      Suunto Vertical all black
                                      Wife : S9PP
                                      SA: Always the latest beta :)
                                      Android 13, Galaxy S205G

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                                      • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                                        Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @GingerBeardMan
                                        last edited by

                                        @GingerBeardMan you could try some phone app and some armband. No joke.

                                        Perhaps a footpod ? (Zwift pod is cheap)

                                        I also don’t know what to advice here other than a pod.

                                        A phone app I am suspecting that will over do the distance , due to offsets (or the GPS stars).

                                        That should be better than less distance I think.

                                        Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                                        Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                                        youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                        https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                        https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

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                                        • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                                          Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @GingerBeardMan
                                          last edited by

                                          @GingerBeardMan ok one thing to check.

                                          If you use Strava, have you tried to press correct distance via the webinterface ?

                                          Btw if you are good financialy , a pod will be something that will benefit you in general in running.

                                          Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                                          Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                                          youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                          https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                          https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                                          G 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • G Offline
                                            GingerBeardMan Bronze Member
                                            last edited by

                                            @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Lockdown setting suunto 9:

                                            a pod will be something that will benefit you in general in running
                                            👍
                                            definitely going to look into it after lockdown

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