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    Suunto 9 with the recent GPS firmware was among least accurate GPS watches in today's 25K trail race

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    • O Offline
      ollemelin Bronze Member @Łukasz Szmigiel
      last edited by

      @Łukasz-Szmigiel

      Yeah, I think a Quick start is one reason behind the issues im having. My wifes garmin 735 takes a good bit longer to aquire gps signal. Ideal i would like to have a big screen before I press start reling me how good signal is from 1 to 5 :).

      With that said, I still have a lot more spikes in my data compared to others in same conditions. Maybe garmin have an algoritm that smooths over those spikes. I don’t know.

      I did order a stryd yesterday so hopefully that will lower my blood pressure. I live in Sweden and there are trees and forests everywhere so GPS-readings are never going to be that precise anyway.

      Łukasz SzmigielŁ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • Łukasz SzmigielŁ Offline
        Łukasz Szmigiel @ollemelin
        last edited by

        @ollemelin if you can, try waiting for a little bit longer on a start screen before you actually hit “Start”. I used to stand in place where sky visibility is good and slowly rotate with my arm in front but I no longer do it since the firmware that introduced Beidou is good enough to begin the workout without any extra rituals 😉

        Some extra data about GNSS quality on a start screen would be a nice addition but I doubt it honestly. Suunto seems to be on a “don’t bother users with too much data” side and I think it’s wise.

        I did have a glimpse on my last workout on QS and Runalyze and it really seems that Suunto is doing its magic with fusedspeed which results in those strange offsets in recorded paths. This is pretty logical - if GNSS is poor and the path would be wobbly but the pace takes priority, the line has to be straight. So the error at the beginning of a turn will persist until the direction changes above certain threshold.

        1. This is the start area - you can see that GNSS quality was poor by looking on altitude diagram. It should be around 120 meters but is way higher and dropping as I run (I have an S5, so there’s no baro). But the pace is rock steady regardless of poor GNSS readings. Also, after enabling “Show points” in QS, it seems that the actual points on the map are more spread apart in this area than in the open - so the watch must behave differently if it’s unsure of it’s position.
          Screenshot_2020-09-26 Quantified Self.png

        2. Now take a look on the same area on Runalyze and its pace chart - it oscillates like mad between 5 and 8 min/km.
          Screenshot_2020-09-26 RUNALYZE.png

        So it really seems to me that Suunto is doing good job to provide as accurate data as possible during the run but since it’s impossible to do this without sacrificing something, it chooses to do a recorded track offset in order to provide more accurate tempo and speed readings.

        I have never seen anything like it before with different hardware - it’s more common to have a zig-zag pattern when GNSS reception is poor, as the path is constantly drifting and it’s being reflected on the record.

        But if you think about it - it’s better to have more accurate predictions about pace and speed than a GNSS path that is constantly wobbling from right to left. But the effect is a constant offset until something dramatic happens (I assume it’s either a sudden change in direction, speed or GNSS precision increase).

        Neat and practical programming.

        Btw. @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos, kudos for “Show points” in QS - it’s great for analyzing such events. You can clearly see that the watch has two modes of saving data where the dots are either more or less condensed - I assume it’s related to GNSS reception.

        S9PP 2.40.38

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
        • freeheelerF Offline
          freeheeler
          last edited by freeheeler

          I think something went bananas today… some segments were right to the point and some completely off

          Screenshot_20201022-200959.png

          living sideways

          Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
          • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
            Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @freeheeler
            last edited by

            @TELE-HO COROS + VANTAGE + SONYS had issues yesterday. Logically SOny chip issue. If you need links …

            Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
            Creator of Quantified-Self.io
            youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
            https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
            https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

            Mff73M surfboomerangS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
            • Mff73M Offline
              Mff73 @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
              last edited by

              @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos
              I had bad GPS yesterday as well, but no Sony in my Spartan 🙂 GPS Fix was long, need to sync again AGPS, and track is bad
              But no complain, i enjoyed my almost nighty, and totally rainy workout 😉

              Suunto Spartan Ultra (since 2016) FW: 2.8.24 (retired)
              Suunto Vertical all black
              Wife : S9PP
              SA: Always the latest beta :)
              Android 13, Galaxy S205G

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
              • surfboomerangS Offline
                surfboomerang @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                last edited by surfboomerang

                @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos
                Only Sony? Can this be chip specific? GPS errors affects all chips right?

                Suunto Vertical Titanium Solar
                OnePlus Nord 4

                Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                  Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @surfboomerang
                  last edited by

                  @surfboomerang not sure, but for sure I saw sony issues.

                  Check the COROS group. They had huge offsets and also our fieltest team

                  Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                  Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                  youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                  https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                  https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                  Łukasz SzmigielŁ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Łukasz SzmigielŁ Offline
                    Łukasz Szmigiel @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                    last edited by

                    @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos this is pretty crazy how it affects whole range of products that use the same chip. But on the other hand it shows how much can still be done with GPS firmware to optimize it.

                    S9PP 2.40.38

                    Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                      Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @Łukasz Szmigiel
                      last edited by

                      @Łukasz-Szmigiel typically this can also be caused by a combination of wrong AGPS + FW

                      For example one time one Galileo Sat was down, aka should not be used, Sony forgot to update the AGPS to include this change and voila. I was steady at a spot locked to that orbiting sat going with crazy speeds around my house.

                      Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                      Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                      youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                      https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                      https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                      Łukasz SzmigielŁ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                      • Łukasz SzmigielŁ Offline
                        Łukasz Szmigiel @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                        last edited by

                        @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos cool story. It seems that the chip relies heavily on AGPS data. I wonder how much really and what will happen in the event of AGPS malfunction (ie. system outage on Sony side).

                        S9PP 2.40.38

                        sartoricS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • sartoricS Offline
                          sartoric Moderator @Łukasz Szmigiel
                          last edited by sartoric

                          @Łukasz-Szmigiel
                          In the ol’times 😁 getting a fix on an handheld gps took a lot

                          Usually you had to turn it on when you almost reached the location, just to start looking the sky, so you had to wait only 5/10 minutes before having a good readings 😁

                          … then phones started using agps …

                          SVTS - 2.40.38
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                          freeheelerF Łukasz SzmigielŁ ? 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                          • freeheelerF Offline
                            freeheeler @sartoric
                            last edited by

                            @sartoric
                            I remember that time… when I carried a backpack for the gps device 😉

                            living sideways

                            sartoricS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • sartoricS Offline
                              sartoric Moderator @freeheeler
                              last edited by

                              @TELE-HO
                              … and external cabled antenna 😁

                              SVTS - 2.40.38
                              SSSWHR BARO Amber - 2.8.32
                              Samsung A5 2016 - Android 7.0
                              Samsung A33 2022 - Android 14 - One UI 6.1
                              Suunto App Android 5.2.5 beta
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                              freeheelerF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • freeheelerF Offline
                                freeheeler @sartoric
                                last edited by

                                @sartoric
                                that was possible with mine, but I did not invest in that 😉

                                living sideways

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • ? Offline
                                  A Former User @Guest
                                  last edited by A Former User

                                  In general for me GPS on S9 is very good and reliable. Some days ago I meassured a typical route via google maps. S9 said exactly the same distance after running. Also very much important and outstanding is FusedAlti. It went so incredible accurate! Wow!

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 5
                                  • Łukasz SzmigielŁ Offline
                                    Łukasz Szmigiel @sartoric
                                    last edited by

                                    @sartoric I remember that too. But A in AGPS should mean assisted, right? Not Absolutely useless untill on LTE 😉

                                    Jokes aside, things like this year’s february bug or offline Galileo sat that @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos mentioned shouldn’t interfere with GPS receiver more than with a longer fix.

                                    S9PP 2.40.38

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • ? Offline
                                      A Former User @sartoric
                                      last edited by A Former User

                                      @sartoric said in Suunto 9 with the recent GPS firmware was among least accurate GPS watches in today's 25K trail race:

                                      @Łukasz-Szmigiel
                                      In the ol’times 😁 getting a fix on an handheld gps took a lot

                                      Usually you had to turn it on when you almost reached the location, just to start looking the sky, so you had to wait only 5/10 minutes before having a good readings 😁

                                      … then phones started using agps …

                                      I don’t know how they manage it, but on the garmin etrex 30x which has no connection to internet the fix is quick.
                                      That is something that sometimes puts me off into newer devices…you seem you can’t get that “pick it and go” you had with old ones like etrex 30x and ambit 2/3.
                                      I remember when I got the ambit 2 even without same days sync it was blazing fast to catch gps signal.
                                      With the polar rc3 I had before, not as fast but max wiating 1min-2min.
                                      Today I hear about continuous resets, having to wait sometime after sync so agps files can do this and that on the watch, plus gps firmware.
                                      Ok, so what is the added value that this new devices bring in order to compensate all the trouble (sincerelly asking)
                                      ?

                                      BulkanB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • BulkanB Offline
                                        Bulkan Moderator @Guest
                                        last edited by

                                        @André-Faria said in [Suunto 9 with the recent GPS firmware was among least accurate

                                        Today I hear about continuous resets, having to wait sometime after sync so agps files can do this and that on the watch, plus gps firmware.
                                        Ok, so what is the added value that this new devices bring in order to compensate all the trouble (sincerelly asking)

                                        How many resets did you have? Just curious.

                                        Tu comunidad Suunto en Telegram: https://t.me/suuntocommunity (spanish)

                                        ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • ? Offline
                                          A Former User @Bulkan
                                          last edited by

                                          @Bulkan said in Suunto 9 with the recent GPS firmware was among least accurate GPS watches in today's 25K trail race:

                                          @André-Faria said in [Suunto 9 with the recent GPS firmware was among least accurate

                                          Today I hear about continuous resets, having to wait sometime after sync so agps files can do this and that on the watch, plus gps firmware.
                                          Ok, so what is the added value that this new devices bring in order to compensate all the trouble (sincerelly asking)

                                          How many resets did you have? Just curious.

                                          With the ambit 2? None. Ambit 3 one.

                                          BulkanB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • BulkanB Offline
                                            Bulkan Moderator @Guest
                                            last edited by

                                            @André-Faria with my s9 none. With my s7 none. With my Spartan none.

                                            So the point is not how bad are our watches, the point is about how good are our watches. Let’s put some positive here.

                                            Tu comunidad Suunto en Telegram: https://t.me/suuntocommunity (spanish)

                                            ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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