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VO2max levels confusing

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  • B Offline
    BrunoH Gold Members
    last edited by 4 Dec 2020, 08:09

    Hi,

    I’m 51 years old male, overweight and trying to get into better shape. I just took a fitness test with my new Suunto 9 and the verdict was VO2max=31.5 which is interpreted by my watch as “very poor”. Yeah, no excuses, it’s just another wakeup call for me.

    But then I searched for more information about VO2max and found a table from Finnish health library and another one from Suunto’s website: https://www.suunto.com/en-gb/Support/Product-support/suunto_ambit3_sport/suunto_ambit3_sport/features/running-performance-level/

    For a man my age 31.5 should be “fair”, not “very poor”. What am I missing here? Are there other parameters taken into account when the watch converts the VO2max into a verbal verdict???

    Best regards,
    Bruno

    Compasses: M-311, A-10, SK-7
    Diving: Finnlight Navy 90, Vyper
    Sports: Metron, S7, S9B and Vertical

    C 1 Reply Last reply 4 Dec 2020, 09:00 Reply Quote 0
    • P Offline
      pavel.samokha
      last edited by 4 Dec 2020, 08:22

      AFAIK Suunto uses Firstbeat algorithms in S9 for measuring VO2max, here their reference on Fitness levels
      https://www.firstbeat.com/en/wellness-services/wellness-professionals/individual-wellbeing/fitness-level/

      Opinions expressed are solely my own and do not express the views or opinions of my employer

      B 1 Reply Last reply 4 Dec 2020, 09:30 Reply Quote 2
      • C Offline
        ChrisA Platinum Member @BrunoH
        last edited by 4 Dec 2020, 09:00

        @BrunoH I think it’s just another „naming“ and you shouldn’t take the naming too seriously… For me it corresponds to my progress in running. I am 50, started running in March with barley completing 3km and now I can run 10km. My vo2max raised from 33 to 38 so it seems a good indicator for ones aerobic fitness…

        B 1 Reply Last reply 4 Dec 2020, 09:37 Reply Quote 3
        • B Offline
          BrunoH Gold Members @pavel.samokha
          last edited by BrunoH 12 Apr 2020, 09:42 4 Dec 2020, 09:30

          @pavel-samokha Thanks, that explains a lot. It’s funny they are referring to something completely diifferent in Suunto Ambit3 reference material.

          Well, it’s easier to accept the verdict now that I know what it’s based on. At least I know my goals now!

          Compasses: M-311, A-10, SK-7
          Diving: Finnlight Navy 90, Vyper
          Sports: Metron, S7, S9B and Vertical

          P 1 Reply Last reply 4 Dec 2020, 09:41 Reply Quote 0
          • B Offline
            BrunoH Gold Members @ChrisA
            last edited by 4 Dec 2020, 09:37

            @ChrisA Thanks!!! No, I won’t take the watch’s insult too seriously 🙂 It’s just easier to set my own goals now that I know how it judges me and how far is the next step.

            Compasses: M-311, A-10, SK-7
            Diving: Finnlight Navy 90, Vyper
            Sports: Metron, S7, S9B and Vertical

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • P Offline
              pavel.samokha @BrunoH
              last edited by 4 Dec 2020, 09:41

              @BrunoH I agree with @ChrisA on that it’s better to use any performance metric as a relative value. And personally I believe such metrics often skewed towards life-time athletes rather than normal people like us. I glad to see more normal people here in the forum, not 100K+ ultra-trail-runners 😁 🖐

              Opinions expressed are solely my own and do not express the views or opinions of my employer

              C 1 Reply Last reply 4 Dec 2020, 12:55 Reply Quote 2
              • C Offline
                ChrisA Platinum Member @pavel.samokha
                last edited by 4 Dec 2020, 12:55

                @pavel-samokha somehow it seems it also depends on the watch brand 😆. At my wife’s Fitbit I get a vo2max of 44 (or „excellent“ ) and I think that’s because it’s aimed to a broader userbase whose main goal is to be more active and not running a marathon. On Polar, Suunto and Garmin my VO2 max is pretty similar in the average or area… (had a polar and my son has some Garmins I could use).

                D 1 Reply Last reply 4 Dec 2020, 13:20 Reply Quote 1
                • D Offline
                  Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @ChrisA
                  last edited by 4 Dec 2020, 13:20

                  @ChrisA or data. Wrong data will give you a higher vo2max. Eg longer distance / faster pace at segments.

                  Does fitbit record hrv during the run etc…

                  Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                  Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                  youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                  https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                  https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                  C 1 Reply Last reply 4 Dec 2020, 15:55 Reply Quote 0
                  • E Offline
                    Efejota Bronze Member
                    last edited by 4 Dec 2020, 13:55

                    My case is totally the opposite. 51, not a great athlete, running as much as 10 kms around 5:45 and the VOMax in amazingly high levels. Compared to those in Runalyze for the same run, I think that the ones from S9B are very very optimistic.

                    D B 2 Replies Last reply 4 Dec 2020, 15:13 Reply Quote 0
                    • D Offline
                      Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @Efejota
                      last edited by 4 Dec 2020, 15:13

                      @Efejota I run at the same pace and get 51. Looks ok.

                      Runalazyze is not using the firstbeat method.

                      Also you wanna make sure you have setup your max hr correct and zones correct.

                      Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                      Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                      youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                      https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                      https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                      P 1 Reply Last reply 4 Dec 2020, 15:25 Reply Quote 0
                      • P Offline
                        pavel.samokha @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                        last edited by 4 Dec 2020, 15:25

                        @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos I think @Efejota meant age 51, not VO2 max = 51

                        Anyway only lab test using gas analysis system can say how accurate is Firstbeat or any other algorithm

                        Opinions expressed are solely my own and do not express the views or opinions of my employer

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • C Offline
                          ChrisA Platinum Member @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                          last edited by 4 Dec 2020, 15:55

                          @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos I am not sure what Fitbit measures but I found it highly overestimating my aerobic fitness and my daily calorie burn. Sometimes it told me I burned 4000 to 4500 calories just by walking with the dog twice on a Saturday… It’s sleep tracking is very good though 😀

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • Z Offline
                            zhang965
                            last edited by zhang965 12 Apr 2020, 22:25 4 Dec 2020, 22:03

                            My vo2max highly depends on gps signal.

                            Best gps situation -> 64 vo2max
                            So-so gps I->. 62
                            Bad ->61

                            tenor (1).gif

                            Winners Wear Winners

                            D 1 Reply Last reply 5 Dec 2020, 07:44 Reply Quote 1
                            • D Offline
                              Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @zhang965
                              last edited by 5 Dec 2020, 07:44

                              @zhang965 said in VO2max levels confusing:

                              My vo2max highly depends on gps signal.

                              Best gps situation -> 64 vo2max
                              So-so gps I->. 62
                              Bad ->61

                              tenor (1).gif

                              Beast

                              Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                              Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                              youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                              https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                              https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • Z Offline
                                zhang965
                                last edited by 7 Dec 2020, 17:38

                                what I’ve observed.

                                Normally, my vo2max on S9B is higher than Runalyze,
                                But since a couple of days, Runalyze is higher than S9B.

                                Winners Wear Winners

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • B Offline
                                  Brad_Olwin Moderator @Efejota
                                  last edited by 7 Dec 2020, 17:45

                                  @Efejota My S9B provides VO2 max below my lab tests, but virtually all my running is on trails so this is understandable. Your HR settings will affect VO2 max too.

                                  Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • Z Offline
                                    zadow
                                    last edited by 7 Dec 2020, 18:00

                                    Well, I guess that we could debate about it till end of the days. Runalyze vs Firstbeat (Suunto) and we’ll never come to any conclusion. RA and FB calculation will never meet, just because both are using different algorithm and none of them is able to handle intervals and trails run in correct way. Not even GAP.
                                    As was mentioned here here already (and many times before) real value can be measured in lab only.
                                    Well, so you can go, let measure your real VO2max value in lab, and the set a correction factor in RA. Of course, do not forget to remove all interval or trail runs from calculation (in RA). Keep calculation for races (single race runs, not multisport races) and steady runs. Then one should be able to keep track on nearly real VO2 max. That is for Runalyze (RA).
                                    For Suunto calculation, it is just not possible (afaik) to exclude specific run from calculation…

                                    Oh yes, and please keep in mind that effective VO2max in RunAnalyze is calculated from VO2max and running efficiency. So, here is another factor in game telling us that you just cannot simply compare values from Runalyze and from Suunto. They are just not the same…

                                    Have a nice day all!

                                    Suunto S9 Baro Titanium, Ironman l.e.
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                                    Z 1 Reply Last reply 7 Dec 2020, 21:49 Reply Quote 3
                                    • Z Offline
                                      zhang965 @zadow
                                      last edited by 7 Dec 2020, 21:49

                                      @zadow said in VO2max levels confusing:

                                      Well, I guess that we could debate about it till end of the days. Runalyze vs Firstbeat (Suunto) and we’ll never come to any conclusion. RA and FB calculation will never meet, just because both are using different algorithm and none of them is able to handle intervals and trails run in correct way. Not even GAP.
                                      As was mentioned here here already (and many times before) real value can be measured in lab only.
                                      Well, so you can go, let measure your real VO2max value in lab, and the set a correction factor in RA. Of course, do not forget to remove all interval or trail runs from calculation (in RA). Keep calculation for races (single race runs, not multisport races) and steady runs. Then one should be able to keep track on nearly real VO2 max. That is for Runalyze (RA).
                                      For Suunto calculation, it is just not possible (afaik) to exclude specific run from calculation…

                                      Oh yes, and please keep in mind that effective VO2max in RunAnalyze is calculated from VO2max and running efficiency. So, here is another factor in game telling us that you just cannot simply compare values from Runalyze and from Suunto. They are just not the same…

                                      Have a nice day all!

                                      but we are discussing the algorithms right?

                                      Winners Wear Winners

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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