Unfortunately time to go back to Garmin.
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@André-Faria The problem is Suunto created 2 great watches, the Race and the Vertical. BUT I think due to the problems on the watch and with the software updates and the lack of visibility of what the next software will bring and when, they probably have lost a lot of the customers they gained with those 2 watches. That’s my 2 cents, they do what they want but I don’t think they have the good strategy there. And they lack a lot of basic feature that most other brands have like structured workouts WITH ALERTS. I’m staying with my Garmin for now and am trying Coros. The Race is in standby waiting for the next firmware update when I will choose what to do with the watch but I’m not too hopeful unfortunately. Sad because I like the app and the watch but too many problems and no clarity is a deal breaker for me. I will keep an eye on what they do next still but if they don’t change their strategy I don’t see them going very far as regards watches. That’s a pity because I think they can build on those 2 watches and retain the customers they have gained.
I’m in love with the Suunto Sonic though
Also as a side note I waited for 3 months for the customer service to reply to my email. Never had I waited so long before.
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@geolerigolo said in Unfortunately time to go back to Garmin.:
@André-Faria BUT I think due to the problems on the watch and with the software updates and the lack of visibility of what the next software will bring and when, they probably have lost a lot of the customers they gained with those 2 watches.
@geolerigolo : That’s your thoughts, but unless you have access to precise database of suunto’s sales and returns due to disappointment, I wouldn’t bet…
Like said many many times : most people here (on this forum) expressing their disappointment are a few parts of customers.
And that’s perfectly OK because it is a community forum for help and share.
Also probably a lot of people on this forum are advanced users, that push devices to their limit. That’s not the majority among all suunto’s users.We are a lot having no problems at all, or few minors bugs.
I have around 10 close friends using SV and RACE for months ; for half they are new to suunto. I’m probably the most advanced user among us and I don’t have issues. None of my friends have issues neither. -
@Tieutieu These are my thoughts, and I said a lot of times “I think” in my past message on the forum.
I have tried almost all big watches brand, and TO ME Suunto is just before Polar and behind Garmin and Coros. Everyone can have his/her opinion, that is mine, I think Suunto could do so much better but if it is good for a lot of customers, it is not good for me AT THE MOMENT.
But I get that some people might like the brand and its watches or have get used to having to wait for a long time to have a software update. If it is good for you, that’s great, but it is not for me right now. I’m always following what brands are doing, and I know that no one watch company is perfect, just some are better TO ME and FOR ME than some others. It can change with time, I’m not stubborn and always ready to change my mind according to my needs of the moment and what companies are doingAnd actually I think Suunto is going in the good direction with watches and headphones and their partnership with UTMB, which could and probably will get them a lot of new customers. But again, attracting new customers is great, keeping them is better. And IN MY OPINION, they will need to get better concerning software updates and clarity and new functionalities.
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@geolerigolo I never get the need to compare Garmin and Suunto with a ‘like for like’. They are very different companies! You buy into either ecosystem with, hopefully, some research into what each has to offer (one company huge/everything and the kitchen sink; one company traditionally and literally magnitudes smaller). With the internet, people should undertand the pros and cons before buying.
Im not sure what prices are like in other parts of the world, but in Canada:
Garmin Epix 2: $1220
Suunto Race: $619For the feature set, design and capabilities, no comparison for me: Suunto is much better value. For those that complain Suunto is missing features or needs more updates, just go spend the extra $600 on a Garmin. But be wary. Garmin people still have their issues and complaints (https://forums.garmin.com/outdoor-recreation/outdoor-recreation/f/epix-2). This sound familiar?
Epix Pro software buggy everywhere: HR zones / weather data on watch face / garmin pay?
4 days ago
I have a new Epix pro for two weeks now and I a lot of problems with the software!Just my 2 cents.
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@mikekoski490 I get that. But some information on the manual of the Suunto Race (which I read BEFORE buying the Race) let me thought that there were true structured workout alerts, which is false, and I would not have bought the Race had I known that. You can only get ONE zone alert and can’t really follow a structured workout, even more so if you use power as a measurement.
Also, if you want to compare head to head, there is the Corox Apex 2 pro which for a similar price has real alerts and has frequent firmware updates. I also said in a preceding comment that I knew that no one company is perfect and that there are bugs in all watch companies. And I know some people love everything about Suunto, which is fine to me. I just posted what I thought. -
@geolerigolo said in Unfortunately time to go back to Garmin.:
on the manual of the Suunto Race let me thought that there were true structured workout alerts, which is false
Out of curiosity, what’s the section that has led you to the deception?
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@robis “Your watch alerts you when you hit your selected target zone. During your exercise the watch will prompt you to speed up or slow down, if your current HR, pace or power is outside the selected target zone.”
I thought that it worked with structured workouts and not only with one zone selected before the activity on the watch.
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In the last three days I have put a Suunto Race on my wrist and a Garmin in the drawer, but I have done this with my eyes wide open and do not take to changing systems lightly.
Back when I started cycling I went all in on Garmin, even down to the bathroom scales. At the time I was working in the cycling industry and along came a new company called Wahoo. I was asked to test their prototype bike computer and instead of returning it I gave them my credit card. It was a breath of fresh air to the Edge520 I had. There was no comparison in features, there still isn’t, but it was clean simple and made me want to use it.
After a global pandemic killed my adventures in cycling I started running and I’m sorry but the Wahoo Rival I was wearing just did not cut it for me, so I went back to Garmin. My Fenix 6, and later a Forerunner 955 offers so much; Pace Pro for those ultra marathons and more daily metrics that I could ever need. Although I soon found I was listening more to the morning report than the morning feelings; slave to the numbers.
When Chip Hawkins announced there would be no follow up watch from Wahoo, I looked around and found Suunto. From the beginning I admired the company ethos, stance and really wanted to invest in it. Although doing my research it was clear it could not complete with the Garmin ecosystem I had invested my time and data in.
Despite this I kept coming back to it, I did all my research. I watched videos from DC and the like where they stated the structured workouts did not alert you. I continued to understand the shortcomings of the Race, the lack of emoji, laggy interface etc etc.
I paid my money and made a choice. Take a hit in these known areas but have something on my wrist that keeps it simple and once again makes me want to use it.Don’t get me wrong I miss aspects, but I knew this going into it, you do your research and make a choice. Yes, you can complain about the lack of transparency in development, or you can help steer the ship with some positive constructive feedback.
Or at worst case, I revisit this post in six months when I’m regretting my choices and browsing YouTube for the next platform
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@FunkyLarma I think I do both, that is complain and try to make positive constructive feedback as to what could be improved^^
I have nothing against Suunto, and there are some aspects of the company, the Race and the ecosystem like the app I like a lot, and as you say our choices can change anytime. For me right now I have a newfound love with COROS APEX 2 Pro and the COROS ecosystem. But I still keep my Garmin because I use the navigation and sometimes other things I don’t find on either COROS or Suunto. If in the (hopefully) near future Suunto has what I’m using most, that is a map with names and structured workouts, then I will try it again
And I understand you so much as I love a watch that makes me want to use it… but only if it meets my needs and I can use it for what I do.
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@geolerigolo Totally get you on the alerts and update advantages with Coros, but not the build quality between Apex and any Suunto. Wonder if Coros will update their Vertix? I thought that was well built.
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@mikekoski490 I agree that the Race is probably better build than the Apex. If you’re talking about software updates, almost every COROS watch gets them (except if they can’t support it because they are too old). I think the Vertix will get an update this year or next year (but as I’m new to COROS I don’t know a lot of things yet). I would also bet that COROS will release an AMOLED watch this year or next one. That would be a strange move from them not to have at least one in their lineup.
But honestly I like both types of screen, be it MIP or AMOLED. AMOLED is nicer to look at and is way better when navigating (I have not tried an AMOLED Garmin watch yet but from what I’ve seen it’s easier to look at the route and there are more colors). On the Race it is good to look at but no names…
I also like MIP displays because they don’t fade when you look at them and if you have to look at your watch for a certain amount of time you don’t have to constantly move your wrist. Also they are more readable in direct sunlight and their battery is often better than AMOLED displays.
I think the future will be full of AMOLEDs and when they won’t need to fade after some seconds it will be the new norm. -
@geolerigolo Too many times I hear the watch, the watch, the watch with virtually no one commenting on the entire ecosystem. How is the Coros app? Do they have incredible heat maps? Do routes in the map show climbs, descents, grades, etc? Are the training metrics universal as are Suunto metrics partnering with TrainingPeaks? I’ve used the Garmin Connect app and don’t care for it much.
Personally, I don’t think making a comparison only on the hardware is a good idea. Would I like structured workouts WITH ALERTS? Well, we already have those, I get alerts with my structured workouts created in the Suunto app, curious why you do not.
I have no issues with someone preferring another brand, I think it is short sided to simply compare the watches.
Would be good to see your problems on the watch and the basic features you are missing, the one you mentioned is not a problem unless you use a 3rd party to sync structured workouts. I would like alerts on my TP workouts but not a deal breaker.As for updates, Garmin does not publish new features they are planning. Do you know what is in the next update? I am not discussing the beta, but the next update after that, Garmin does not publish a roadmap, no different than Suunto. Does Coros?
Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing
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We are customers, not followers.
We shouldn’t be here to defend one brand or another.
We pay the brands (Suunto, Garmin, Coros) and not the brands us.
Are we clear about that?As a customer, being the one paying, I have every right to change my watch as many times as I want (paying each time, of course) and say, if I feel that way, that a specific model of a specific brand does not work for me.
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For me as a customer, all this mess and lack of transparency with updates is unacceptable. Especially since they concern many small bugs that should be released on an ongoing basis (if they are ready), without waiting for any major updates that the client has no idea about anyway.
As an example, I will use contour lines on the map, the absence of which is a very important element of maps for me. Developers assured that it was only a temporary removal due to some problems. Months pass and no one publicly discusses this topic. Will they come back? Will I be able to see a larger area on the screen? Does anyone even listen to customers?
Even the stupid charging cable is so bad that it is useless without a stable base (this is a problem in the mountains, while running, in a tent, etc.) and somehow, for several years and several watch models, no one has thought of improving it, even to the level of previous watches.
And there are dozens of such annoying things. -
@Brad_Olwin I want to first say that my comments are not to complain but for Suunto to get better with some changes they could make if they want.
The Coros app is less beautiful but I have free workouts I can download and add seamlessly to the calendar and the watch. They don’t have incredible heat maps as you say (which is a really good point for Suunto), the routes do show climbs, ascents (grades I’m not sure yet, as I have not tried it fully, it was just a test I did to have the basics), but they do have a data field indicating grade (which you don’t have on the Race except if using a Suunto + feature). I don’t know if the metrics are universal on Coros but they are in line with what I get on Garmin. I am comparing to point the areas of improvements for Suunto, but here the long Suunto users don’t always like that.
I have never had alerts on my structured workouts except if I choose beforehand on the watch ONE HR/pace/power zone. But if I want manual zones or more than one zone I can’t. For example if I want to follow a structured workout created on the Suunto app, I just have a new screen with the 3 zones, the intended zone in the middle and if I am above or under nothing happens, no vibrations, no sound, nothing. If this is a software problem then it is quite annoying. If you have all the alerts you want then tell me how you do it.When it comes to updates, Coros has often one every month, with an article explaining what has changed. If you follow their newsletter, they tell you some weeks in advance what will be released on the next update.
Garmin does not tell what will be coming but we can easily guess because they tend to implement the features released to their new watches on their high-end watches short or middle term. And they have 4 major releases each year, and each time you have them first with the beta program where every bug fixed is noted. It is clearer than “bug fixes and improvements”. And at least we know we have one update every 3 months.
Actually I would be happy if Suunto did say when their next update will be released, for example March/April, I don’t need an official date with the day but just knowing it will come and when and what will be the areas they intend to fix, and they can still release the update if not everything is fixed by crossing what they couldn’t do before the firmware was released. -
@Brad_Olwin You said, you get alerts with your structured workouts created in the Suunto app. Are you talking about production firmware? I have just tried it with my Suunto Race and I don’t get any audible alerts or vibrations when I am outside of the target HR range.
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I used the structured workouts with pace and never get any alerts. Mind you, if it’s only a visual alert, the fonts are so small you can’t see them anyway.
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About alerts, I don’t miss alerts for “out of target zone” (It existed on my A3P but it was something annoying when it was “bipping” all the time, so I had it disabled).
The two things I miss the most with integrated structured workouts are actually :- the rep counter
- a bip contdown 5sec before each rep and at the end of a rep
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@geolerigolo I could not agree more, it is really frustrating having a company wich i have always been a fan of and have had several Suunto watches in the past, letting the customers down. I will not mention have bad the customer service is, that is another topic for itself.
I have have the Race for several months now awaiting the “big” bug fix, but nothing happens, no statement about the known issues… nothing but silence.
i have taken the consequence and have ordered a Coros Apex 2 Pro and a POD 2. Coros stands for all the openness i wish Suunto did, and as it stands now, i unfortenatly cannot recommend the brand to my social network… selling a product with fundamental bugs and not fixing it ASAP is simply just not good enough Suunto! -
@Kristin-Jensen I am really sad too because I love a lot of things about Suunto, but the “something will be changed” “someday” is too unclear for me, as well as the lack of real structured workouts.
Have fun with your new watch and POD! Effort pace is a great metric to use, I’m in love with it. It is easier to understand than power
