Suunto app Forum Suunto Community Forum
    • Recent
    • Tags
    • Popular
    • Users
    • Groups
    • Register
    • Login

    Suunto ZoneSense

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved SuuntoPlus™ Sports Apps
    901 Posts 135 Posters 79.8k Views 118 Watching
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • Francesco PaganoF Offline
      Francesco Pagano Silver Members Bronze Member @pilleus
      last edited by

      @pilleus A bit off topic: I haven’t opened QS in a while and I was not aware of the IBI chart. Where can I find some guidance on how to read it?

      S9PP
      S5

      pilleusP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • pilleusP Offline
        pilleus @Francesco Pagano
        last edited by

        @Francesco-Pagano said in Suunto ZoneSense:

        @pilleus A bit off topic: I haven’t opened QS in a while and I was not aware of the IBI chart. Where can I find some guidance on how to read it?

        Import your training from Suunto to QS and you will find in the charts section the IBI chart (klick to activate it). To avoid the auto stops you can choose distance as x axis type.

        https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
        Suunto Vertical Black Lime
        Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
        Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

        pilleusP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • D Offline
          droopsio @halajos
          last edited by

          @halajos said in Suunto ZoneSense:

          @droopsio do you have any other Suunto+ activated or intensity target set? I had issues with ZoneSense when I tried to use different features at the same time.

          @halajos you was right - after I’ve switched off climb in S+, ZoneSense started to work as it should. I still don’t why there may be a problem, but it seems, that 2 apps running at the same time are too much for the watch 🙂

          H 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
          • H Offline
            halajos Bronze Member @droopsio
            last edited by

            @droopsio I hope this will be fixed, looks like a problem with the S+ framework

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • pilleusP Offline
              pilleus @pilleus
              last edited by pilleus

              @pilleus said in Suunto ZoneSense:

              Import your training from Suunto to QS

              Without QS you can convert your Suunto fit file into a csv file and plot the hr and ibi data into a chart, where you can see the corralation of both charts (the misreadings can be seen clearly).

              ibi_bpm.png

              https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
              Suunto Vertical Black Lime
              Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
              Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
              • mlakisM Offline
                mlakis Bronze Member @Egika
                last edited by

                @Egika, it’s good that Suunto is pairing with group of scientists to provide new insights using the data we capture with our watches.

                Haven’t read the paper, but in practise, it seems that ZS could be a very good structured test with instructions in the fashion of “in the warm-up do this, then ramp efforts like this etc”, like tests that use blood sampling, only that you can get the same results as a laboratory but without the lab and the blood sampling.

                This is a huge innovation.

                But the usage of ZS as a metric on totally uncontrolled environment during the activities (and post-workout on SA), for me (and for many others), is totally unintuitive and unstable.

                To conclude, I think that ZS will give more value to a lot more people if it can be coupled with some structured test or at least structured instructions for us to do, and with the results we can update our zones, either a 5 or a 3 zone model.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                • pilleusP Offline
                  pilleus
                  last edited by pilleus

                  Since I either have to climb 75 meters or descend 35 meters before I reach flat terrain, I only started recording my activity in the valley today to give ZoneSense a good baseline for the first ten minutes.

                  This worked well and over the course of the 40 km bike ride on the single speed, ZoneSense’s live display seemed conclusive to me, apart from two or three peculiarities.

                  Sprints (into the anaerobic range) were displayed slightly delayed on the live scale, a hard sprint on the way back with a headwind (into the VO2max range) was also displayed as a red zone with approx. 4 minutes.

                  After that, however, I cycled at a constant speed and heart rate for about 5 km (about 1:15 in the chart) on flat terrain and the live scale went into the red zone three times before quickly falling back into the low yellow zone. I’m not quite sure what happened there. It’s not so clear in the app display.

                  It is also unclear to me why the anaerobic and VO2max thresholds are explicitly displayed as xxx bpm (value) in the details of one workout, but not in another.

                  Screenshot_20241011-183255.png

                  https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
                  Suunto Vertical Black Lime
                  Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
                  Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

                  herlasH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • Brad_OlwinB Offline
                    Brad_Olwin Moderator @mlakis
                    last edited by Brad_Olwin

                    @mlakis said in Suunto ZoneSense:

                    @Egika, now we can speak.

                    The need for stable cardiovascular condition and the too slow sample rate, in addition to the first minutes where it calibrates, mean that ZoneSense can be a good test to determine zones, threshold etc, where the person to be tested is given instructions on what to do and how to structure his/her efforts.

                    For normal efforts like training, racing, free riding etc it seems a very unstable metric where you can draw no conclusion on what your heart/body is doing.

                    The intent is not to test your HR zones. But, for endurance efforts to use ZS instead of HR zones as your AT will vary depending on fatigue, effort, etc in real time. For me during normal runs and ultra races it is incredibly useful. I think you misunderstand the intended usage. I will not need to monitor or set HR zones again! I will use ZS and supplement with RPE.

                    Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing

                    mlakisM ChrisAC 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                    • herlasH Offline
                      herlas Silver Members @pilleus
                      last edited by herlas

                      @pilleus “It is also unclear to me why the anaerobic and VO2max thresholds are explicitly displayed as xxx bpm (value) in the details of one workout, but not in another.”

                      Aerobic and anaerobic thresholds are displayed on your workouts when either one of them or both were successfully measured by the ZoneSense algorithm. It won’t be measured in every single workout, you have to spend time on the next zone to get threshold measured, it’s been said that usually at least 5 mins it’s a safe number, however only if that day you’re indeed crossing that threshold value, e.g. if you’re well rested or fitness is getting better, to name a few, threshold can be higher(or lower) that you’d expect. That’s one of the biggest selling points of ZS, it takes in consideration your daily heart stress level recorded during the baseline and adjust efforts zones (aerobic, anaerobic and VO2max) dynamically.

                      SRS Ti
                      A3P (drill mode for pool swimming 🤦🤷)
                      Galaxy Z Flip 3 / Galaxy S24+

                      pilleusP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                      • pilleusP Offline
                        pilleus @herlas
                        last edited by pilleus

                        @herlas said in Suunto ZoneSense:

                        you have to spend time on the next zone to get threshold measured, it’s been said that usually at least 5 mins it’s a safe number

                        I understand, I think it was also explained in the Suunto introductory video on YT. And it was mentioned that you should pay attention to your heart rate at shorter intervals, as ZS will not react as quickly.

                        It is only difficult with the live display on the watch. I set the speed and heart rate option on the ZS display to see that I’m riding at a constant speed and heart rate on the flat. But today the live display went up and down across all three zones in ZS.

                        This would mean that if I want to ride aerobically, when this happens and the display goes up, I would have to ride slower, when the display goes down, I would have to ride faster.

                        That doesn’t seem quite logical to me yet.

                        https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
                        Suunto Vertical Black Lime
                        Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
                        Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • mlakisM Offline
                          mlakis Bronze Member @Brad_Olwin
                          last edited by

                          @Brad_Olwin, well since I don’t understand, upload a screenshot from an endurance activity of yours with ZS and HR plotted and explain to me how you used ZS, because from mine and of other’s activities that are posted here, even from those from Suunto’s initial release, it seems that ZS numbers are totally counterintuitive, because ZS drops when effort ramps up and goes up when effort ramps down.

                          stromdiddilyS Brad_OlwinB 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • herlasH Offline
                            herlas Silver Members
                            last edited by herlas

                            FYI, S+ ZoneSense has been recently updated.

                            1000002847.jpg

                            According to the Suunto Community channel on telegram (in spanish), initial reported bugs have been addressed.

                            Bugs fixed mentioned include :

                            *Multiple arrow indicator issues such as, it gets stuck, it’s shown at the center of the screen.

                            *text “waiting for data” continues to be shown after the 10 mins warmup/calibration ends.

                            *zone colors or arrow indicator are missing.

                            *differences between real time analysis and SA after the fact.

                            *S+ ZS should work better now when using a second app at the same time ( S+ climb has special workaround, see below)

                            If using S+ climb together with ZS:
                            Enable S+ climb after the10 mins warm-up is completed and ZS shows the zones with colors.

                            Also, it was recommended to uninstall S+ ZS, sync watch, double check S+ is gone from watch pre-workout menu and install it again.

                            Might not be needed but to be on safer side.

                            SRS Ti
                            A3P (drill mode for pool swimming 🤦🤷)
                            Galaxy Z Flip 3 / Galaxy S24+

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                            • stromdiddilyS Offline
                              stromdiddily Gold Members @mlakis
                              last edited by stromdiddily

                              @mlakis said in Suunto ZoneSense:

                              @Brad_Olwin, well since I don’t understand, upload a screenshot from an endurance activity of yours with ZS and HR plotted and explain to me how you used ZS, because from mine and of other’s activities that are posted here, even from those from Suunto’s initial release, it seems that ZS numbers are totally counterintuitive, because ZS drops when effort ramps up and goes up when effort ramps down.

                              I’m not Brad but I just used ZoneSense during my 100 miler to pace it and it worked pretty darn flawlessly. There is definitely some lag on what’s reflected in the watch (ex big climbs taking a few moments for the arrow to jump into yellow).

                              I’m not yet sure how useful it will be for interval type efforts but I would absolutely use it for any effort where some restrained pacing is required.

                              Always carry a flaggon of whiskey for snakebite; and furthermore, always carry a small snake.

                              User of pretty much every watch since the Ambit 3 Peak. Now back in the family w SV :)

                              mlakisM Brad_OlwinB 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 4
                              • mlakisM Offline
                                mlakis Bronze Member @stromdiddily
                                last edited by

                                @stromdiddily graph please

                                stromdiddilyS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • Brad_OlwinB Offline
                                  Brad_Olwin Moderator @mlakis
                                  last edited by Brad_Olwin

                                  @mlakis said in Suunto ZoneSense:

                                  @Brad_Olwin, well since I don’t understand, upload a screenshot from an endurance activity of yours with ZS and HR plotted and explain to me how you used ZS, because from mine and of other’s activities that are posted here, even from those from Suunto’s initial release, it seems that ZS numbers are totally counterintuitive, because ZS drops when effort ramps up and goes up when effort ramps down.

                                  This is my entire point! Hopefully I can explain better. I am not examing my HR and ZS plots after my run, I have CTL TSS and TSB for that. During my run I use the ZS app and monitor whether I am aerobic or not. On an endurance run I will keep ZS in the high green and low yellow. For recovery runs green only. For tempo intervals mid to high yellow. in the app I relate my RPE with what ZS suggests for my AT, which is at my-expected threshold if I am well recovered and feel good or lower if I am fatigued. I use ZS in real time to manage my effort and use this for races as well.
                                  Examing the graphs after the fact is not what ZS is useful for. If I am doing shorter and harder intervals I will use power, not ZS.

                                  Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing

                                  mlakisM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • Brad_OlwinB Offline
                                    Brad_Olwin Moderator @stromdiddily
                                    last edited by

                                    @stromdiddily exactly my usage as well. Congratulations on your race!

                                    Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • JosaipluJ Offline
                                      Josaiplu Bronze Member
                                      last edited by

                                      Hat I could tell is the folllowing
                                      Most of the time Zs works fine, I saw however few runs at high intensity (Wednesday is my vo2max day) where Zs stay in green
                                      When I look to the rr data in runalyse after I see looots of artifact (more than 15%)
                                      I think it is working well when data collection is good.
                                      @Brad_Olwin may I ask you which belt you are using ?
                                      For those that complain did you look over your rr artifacts ? Maybe it could explain a bad behavior

                                      herlasH Brad_OlwinB 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • herlasH Offline
                                        herlas Silver Members @Josaiplu
                                        last edited by herlas

                                        @Josaiplu how long are your Vo2max efforts? Well known that short intervals are not going to be represented by ZS, this is a known limitation.

                                        400s on the track at Vo2max are a no go.
                                        800s are better represented specially after 2nd interval but real intensity is represented on the last part only.

                                        For short interval should keep using pace or time not even HR 🙂

                                        400s

                                        1000002848.jpg

                                        800s

                                        1000002833.jpg

                                        SRS Ti
                                        A3P (drill mode for pool swimming 🤦🤷)
                                        Galaxy Z Flip 3 / Galaxy S24+

                                        JosaipluJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • JosaipluJ Offline
                                          Josaiplu Bronze Member @herlas
                                          last edited by

                                          @herlas I know that I did not do 30-30 interval I go run for 1 v max out like it is a race, sometime I walk if I m out of breath or ascent is too high but it s a long max out race, I know it s not fully a vo2 max but sa put this tag on it and zs remain green on one of them
                                          Example with low artifacts
                                          IMG_9727.png
                                          Example with either artifact or bad fc detection
                                          IMG_9728.png
                                          IMG_9729.png
                                          Last picture there is an increase in fc and zs go down for exemple
                                          On my bike however I never get a bad detection so I think artifact could have an impact
                                          In the past I watch a video that explain how to detect threshold using dfa1 and it is hard to do with running while on a bike it is easier because there is less artifacts

                                          herlasH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • mlakisM Offline
                                            mlakis Bronze Member @Brad_Olwin
                                            last edited by

                                            @Brad_Olwin, no graphs yet.

                                            I want a graph of ZS/HR and an explanation of how ZS helped you better than HR to pace your effort, in respect also to how many times the ZS was showing nonsense and instead of helping you it was misleading you.

                                            That’s what we are examining, what metric helps you better to pace you efforts.

                                            So, graph please.

                                            Brad_OlwinB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • First post
                                              Last post

                                            Suunto Terms | Privacy Policy