Several swim issues and questions

Cinzia Araosta

Hi all,
I’m using my new Race S for tracking my swim, and everything is so wrong…

I personalized the standard view in order to understand better where I am during my training, but I’m not able to find the “pool count”, there is only “distance”. I CAN’T do math first thing in the morning…
Can’t have a simple pool count? Ok. But still, distance measuring is always wrong… It adds meters even if I’m standing still!
Even if my heart is beating to the roof, heart rate is always low, little arrow in the blue fragment… is it working or what?
Did someone experienced major problems during swimming like me? Any suggestions?
I’m thinking to returning it, no point using it like that.

Inge Nallsson

@Cinzia-Araosta If you by “pool count” mean laps, then I believe it is called “Current Interval number” in the English Suunto terminology. Look down in the “Interval” section of the available data points. Adding distance while standing still, are you sure that the on watch “GPS” toggle is “Off” - even in the “Pool swimming” activity --> “Exercise options” we can choose to toggle GPS… Don’t know why…

But if you’ve bought the Race S as a swimming watch, I believe you’ll be disappointed in the main. I was a swimmer in my youth and retain fine techniques in all styles, but the Race S call every lap I do “Freestyle”. Breaststroke, Backstroke, Freestyle - doesn’t matter. Have not tried Butterfly yet, but have low expectations for a correct identification. Also there is no Drill mode on the watch… But the lap count I’ve found to be very good, better than the Garmin FR955 I used at the same test time.

Edit: HR from wrist in water environment is far from exact with any brand - I’ve tried Coros, Garmin. With the Suunto I now use a HR strap (and a cut down running T-shirt to keep it pressed towards the body by suction effect). But low HR, I hope you know that swimming HR naturally is far, far below running HR, and even lower than Cycling. The lifting of the body by the water reduces strain overall.

Edit 2: There is also a “Lap number” under the heading “Other”. Something to try… I must say that the Suunto terminology is a bit mixed and jumbled. Trial and error seems to be the only way to finding stuff in the “SELECT DATA” area.

Cinzia Araosta

@Inge-Nallsson thank you very much, your comments are very precious.

My Suunto is set to Italian, and some translations are far from be understandable - maybe it’s time to set it to English and bypass the issue.

Regarding HR… Probably you’re right, the accuracy can be questionable with any brand - if I check the pulse on my neck it’s way higher than the one on the watch. Buying a strap is the next step, will see.Thanks for the suggestion!

isazi

@Cinzia-Araosta the strap cannot really transmit underwater, so in case you want to go this way the Suunto chest strap is the only one that can store and then transmit data to your watch once you get off the water.

AntoniusGaius

@isazi Hi I think that POLAR H10 has a memory for one activity as well and should work too. And GARMIN HRM Swim and HRM Pro plus should have this function too. Not only SUUNTO smart sensor.

kriskus

@AntoniusGaius Suunto watches can only read memory from Suunto HR belts

isazi

@AntoniusGaius as @kriskus said, there is no standard, so Suunto watches can only read the memory of the Suunto sensor, Garmin watches can only read the memory of Garmin sensors, and so on.

AntoniusGaius

@isazi @kriskus I thought there is standard for these data transmission. I have never tried it. With SUUNTO Smart sensor it worked, but the data was in last few months overall useless. Maybe the belt was already dead. I have actually two of these.
Actually I use H10 on daily basis, and in standard scenarios it is much better. Connection with watch is much faster on start. I will try the memory function on some short training tomorrow.
Anyway swimming with S9PP is not good as well. Pool count is accurate only in perfect conditions, you can’t do anything little different. Then watch counts extra pool. OHR bad, but in this case it is understandable. Tomorrow I will have swim training so I will take my A3P and belt for it. I remember that there was swimming really good. 9PP never recognizes the style, it is always freestyle no matter what you do. I understand, that it works like this by all new SUUNTO watches. I will update this topic after I try A3P.

Inge Nallsson

@Cinzia-Araosta I apologize for not mentioning what others have pointed out, that you will need a Suunto HR strap for swimming since it contains memory that synchronize with the watch whenever both are above the water. No other brand will work for that specific use case. The sync is extremely quick, so it is practically like getting the puls directly from the optical sensor - though the strap reads the electrical signals that makes the heart contract. I use the strap in the pool because I use the SuuntoPlus ZoneSense app (to monitor my real time effort, and not swim too fast…) which only works with an electrical signal HR strap, not an optical sensor in any form or shape.

When it comes to your search for a pool lap counter, I experimented this evening during a swim session, having set up a data screen with the two options from my previous post. The results are as follows:

SELECT DATA
[…]
Interval
Current interval number

This option counts up when you rest at the pool side. Doing 100 metres, then rest, the count is 1. Doing 200 metres, then rest, the count is 2. 50 metres… count gets to 3 etc. I don’t think this is what you were looking for.

[…]
Other
[…]
Lap number

That option became a 1 when I had started the session, and then didn’t change at all… Only when I pressed the lower (lap) button did it count up to 2, and so forth. Thus it can be used as a manual ‘interval’ counter.
BUT I believe it also can be used as a crude automatic distance counter from the settings on the watch itself:

“Pool swimming” --> “Exercise options” --> “Autolap” --> “Distance” --> 0.1 km

100 metres was the smallest number Suunto offer. Sorry. Not much different in the math department with such a ‘lap’ counter. But, hey, if you set the “Pool length” to 100m, the laps will increase by 1 every time you push off from the pool side… And you will rack up some impressive exercise numbers

Inge Nallsson

@Inge-Nallsson Regarding ‘Current interval number’: The SuuntoPlus App “Swim timer” is more flexible as it adjust the rep counting based on distance:

“The timer gives you also the rep counter, how many reps in one interval set you have done. Such as that this was 5th 100m interval. The reps will count always the same distance reps, and will automatically start from 1, when new distance is done.”

Pat Fennell

@Inge-Nallsson in sport mode customisation on watch I select 3 fields in 1st screen.
Swim distance , (not distance), this will give the total for your session
Interval swim distance , i.e if you swim 10 x 100m it will just count 100 and reset each time
Interval avg pace e.g 1.40 , even if you swim 200’s it will still express the pace in 100m. You could select interval time instead.
Also if you scroll though screen just by pressing crown you will have lap table and also am analogue swim pace clock if your pool doesnt have one. I have swam with different Suunto watch for over 7 years and and very happy with it, plenty of data, pace , stroke rate, swolf etc not too concerned with HR accuracy cause your swimming and horizontal and weightless so its never going to be comparable with other exercises now , no matter what you strap to yourself

Inge Nallsson

@Pat-Fennell Ah, yes, thank you for the suggestions, but I myself am content with total activity time, total distance and the ZoneSense data screen to put a ‘brake’ on my (often) too hard efforts. What I’ve tried to find with these posts are a solution to the original poster @Cinzia-Araosta and the wish to simplify the swimming experience even more. From what I understand is that when the OP for example sets out to do 50 lengths in a 25 metres pool, they want to see a counter going up from 1 to 50 - not having to think and compute that 50x25=1250. Having gone through all the configuration options in the Swim section I must conclude that it can’t be done - unless we stop and rest at each 25 metres wall and thus create an ‘interval’ that the watch can count as such.

Cinzia Araosta

Hi all, this post as an update to the “swim issues” situation.
I used several customized Sport Modes to check all data that is possible to add on screens, and I guess LAPS data are the only ones useful for me.

With my old Garmin I used to press a button to switch on “rest” mode and back again in “swim” mode, so I will keep this behaviour, closing a lap every time I stop my interval and keep the time counter going which I guess it will add the rest time to the next lap. Interval data are completely useless, I don’t swim very fast and it seems like it detects stops even if I’m swimming, not cool.

Still having major issues with correct distance detection (which is related to the interval topic before), it adds so many meters because it seems to detect change of swim styles (I never change in the same interval), or decides that I arrived at the end of the pool even if I’m still in the very middle of it (so it registers 25 meters in 13 seconds, I wish…).

Anyway, I’m so very disappointed.
I switched to Suunto because the accelerometer in my old Garmin abandoned me and customer support was not helpful at all, but I’m not happy with my decision.
I know Race S was not built specifically for swimming, but still, this is not an excuse for such an expensive watch.

Thank you all for your help, anyway!

Inge Nallsson

@Cinzia-Araosta said in Several swim issues and questions:

Anyway, I’m so very disappointed

Mi spiace… And we can only hope that Suunto refines the Swim mode in future firmwares (as has been rumoured they’d like to do).

sindavide

@kriskus
Yep

isazi

@Inge-Nallsson changes in the swim algorithms are being tested, and more changes have also been hinted/promised. But I do not swim, so have no idea about the improvements.

Inge Nallsson

@isazi Thank you for the heads-up. I’ll look forward to any and all improvements!

Leonid Yasyukevich

@Cinzia-Araosta
Old Ambits good specially for swimming. They are bulky, thats the only problem. But they learn swimming techniques and there are drill mode for all you need from swimming. I dont know why Suunto cut this things from all last watch.

Inge Nallsson

While browsing the Garmin forum postings for their latest watch, the Instinct 3, I saw a former Instinct (1) user complain about the poor lap counting both on the old and now on the new watch:

“Pool Swimming lap counting: PLEASE make it better!”

https://forums.garmin.com/outdoor-recreation/outdoor-recreation/f/instinct-3/401629/pool-swimming-lap-counting-please-make-it-better

[…]
“It happens under specific circumstances. In my case, if the swimming pool is crowded and I unfortunately have to slow down, it ends up counting double (or triple) laps”
[…]
“Now I bought an Instinct 3 Solar, and had high hopes this would be better, just to figure out it’s just as bad… I understand the tips (have a clear push from the wall etc [1]), but there is no excuse to not make this algorithm better!”

The poster then goes on with suggestions of how the programmers should enhance the length detection, and it all sounds reasonable enough. Though when also reading the noted Garmin tips, I shiver with the complexity:

“Tips to Improve Accuracy of Pool Swim Activities”

https://support.garmin.com/en-US/?faq=iS2KcmGiVb4djrE1lri8i7

Programming using simple ‘while’/‘if’/‘for’ etc language entries suddenly feels totally inadequate. It seems to be a nightmare of trying to catch the exceptions.

No doubt my own good experience with pool distance counting comes from simplistic circumstances, where I can maintain an even speed without disruptions. Also, my push-offs are always followed by three to five metres of underwater glide. Easy-peasy detection stuff…

I do not envy the coders in this specific counting case. Though, that’s why they are so highly paid