Important news concerning our digital services
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I’m putting this here because I think is the right place: https://forum.suunto.com/topic/1862/external-sync-through-sports-tracker/10
@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in External sync through Sports-Tracker:
short and sweet. Any 3rd party tool that pulls data to other services should not use ST as a source. You can let SA sync to Strava for example and do the sync from there.
So Sa->Strava -> 3rd party -> where you want your data to go
@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos , with all the respect for the job done till now, that I know that is a lot even if it doesn’t look like, but I hope all you see that after Suunto kills MC and without alternative yet, if we have to do all this to do a proper analysis of the workout is not acceptable?
If the gear was very cheap I could accept the downsizes and the necessity of doing tricks to get the files where I want but not with Suunto prices and more if your direct competition are giving you what you already have. If Suunto/Amer wants us to use only an mobile app, I do not agree but Suunto should present us the best mobile app, not the one that we have now, we should have something that really makes us doubt if it is enough only with it. Right know is not the case and in my opinion we are quite far, I really hope that Suunto proves me wrong.
Regarding the 3rd party apps, most of us have started slowly or we train for fun at respectable level without the need of intervals, training plans, etc. Some of us have started to lose some weight, then fun and now we start to look for more technical training. So at the beginning we do not need the most advanced metrics or analysis tools but we need some basic features, and this should be supplied by Suunto not for 3rd party app, then in case I want/need better tools then its time to go for the 3rd party apps. I been around for a while here and I even follow some of you and I can see why you (@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos) or @Brad_Olwin need better analysis tools but not all of us need them, at least yet.
For me the problem is that I see Suunto quite lost that they are asking us what we want instead of “I will give you till here, do you agree or need more?”
I’m trying to be constructive here, In my trainings I’m in the point were I’m trying to understand all the data and apply changes to my way of running but I can do a proper analysis in MC not in SA (at least until there is a web version). I have tried to do it in SA but forgetting the fact of the size of the screen I do not have graphs for everything (cadence, temperature, etc), I can’t overlay multiple graphs only altitude, pace and HR in a tiny proportion (1/5) of the mobile screen). -
In my thinking, suunto is considering something like this:
What it the cost of producing a web platform that does great analysis?
Easy, let’s check at some of the best 3rd party offerings.
(Not real numbers)–> So, it’s something like 10USD(EUR)/month per user.
If suunto has 1.000.000 users, then this is a 120mil/year potential income. This is roughly the cost associated with providing this service. Or the opportunity cost, one might say.
So, suunto decided to copy the lower cost offering of xiaomi and let it;s partners reap the benefits. If only 10% of Suunto users are -forced- to use a 3rd party tool, then it is 12mil/year of income for said partners.
Plus, the mil/year that Suunto is not forced to invest in creating this web platform, supporting older watches etc.
Who is willing to bet what percentage of the functionality of web MC will be present in SA when MC shuts down?
For me it is all about functionality. I could live without a web interface if, by some way, all the functionality would be present.
But, Suunto is seemingly ok to lose part of its core base in order to pursue the blue ocean strategy (i.e. all the people that do not have a watch yet).
Maybe the next suunto watches are more affordable and less focused on long time athletes.
The hardware strategy will align to the software strategy. -
@Yannis-Belouris said in Important news concerning our digital services:
But, Suunto is seemingly ok to lose part of its core base in order to pursue the blue ocean strategy (i.e. all the people that do not have a watch yet).
Maybe the next suunto watches are more affordable and less focused on long time athletes.I also think they are making a strategic shift now. As I said it the other day, after they shutdown movescount, their competition is going to be cheap chinese manufacturers (Xiaomi, LEMFO, Alfawise etc.) . Prices (and of course built quality) of Suunto watches will have to be adjusted accordingly. Not surprisingly if we know about takeover of Amer Sports by Chinese Anta Sports.
So in my opinion, Suunto will in the future be just another manufacturer of crappy watches focused more on fashion then usability and will not be targeting professional sportsmen and outdoor enthusiasts anymore. In the end, maybe that way they will earn more money, but nevertheless it’s a great loss for the pro users who will now have less alternatives. Lack of competition is going to hurt the entire industry.
I’m still trying to understand why they chose ST app, crappy as it is, to try to make it better, than to modernize movescount. By keeping movescount app, they could have even ditched the website but make the transition smooth for the users and not spit them in the face by making their older, top quality watches, obsolete.
I’m not sure they understand that they are far too behind with development of this app. They are selling new, very expensive watches, that still don’t have not even the same set of features that old ones had (which they are trying to brick soon) and are asking users to be patient… They sell you a 600$ watch, then tell you to wait for them to develop a working app few years, but in mean time they are bricking or crippling the devices sold just few years ago. It’s hard to imagine worse scenario for the image of the company.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this strategic shift of Suunto puts them out of business in the end.
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@Emir-Karisik yeah it seems the Finns have great technical ability with zero business awareness.
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@Droro said in Important news concerning our digital services:
@Emir-Karisik yeah it seems the Finns have great technical ability with zero business awareness.
I would keep comments related to country, race etc to my self if I was you
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@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos meaning?
It was just a comment regarding Nokia if you didn’t get it, seem to be going the same way… -
@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos but seriously, what do you mean by ‘if I was you.’? If you are implying something then say it directly.
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@Droro Nokia, Erricson , Suunto or Garmin are not composed of one country of origin people.
Meaning: please do not scope comments, arguments, or anything in this forum to race, country etc of People.
I understand that you scoped it on a company level, that is fine now.
It’s just a heads up for anyone that would try todo so.
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@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos I’m not into racism or bigotry, but I am into customer service and standing behind company claims.
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@Droro understood. No worries.
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Extremely disappointing to hear the discontinuation of MovesCount.
I purchased my Ambit2 in 2013 and it has been my go to solution for recording and planning routes. My Ambit2 actually saved me from calling a helicopter rescue at the summit of Ben Nevis, when I activated the “Track Back” feature that guided me back to safety and below the snowline. Ever since that incident, I have had huge admiration for my Ambit2 and wear it with pride.
Since learning of Suunto’s announcement to stop supporting my watch it has been a great disappointment.
I need to upload GPX routes to my watch and download route data.
The worldwide Suunto community NEEDS an offline software solution for legacy Ambit watches.
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@photosheikh said in Important news concerning our digital services:
Extremely disappointing to hear the discontinuation of MovesCount.
I purchased my Ambit2 in 2013 and it has been my go to solution for recording and planning routes. My Ambit2 actually saved me from calling a helicopter rescue at the summit of Ben Nevis, when I activated the “Track Back” feature that guided me back to safety and below the snowline. Ever since that incident, I have had huge admiration for my Ambit2 and wear it with pride.
Since learning of Suunto’s announcement to stop supporting my watch it has been a great disappointment.
I need to upload GPX routes to my watch and download route data.
The worldwide Suunto community NEEDS an offline software solution for legacy Ambit watches.
Good luck with that…
https://www.change.org/p/suunto-suunto-give-customers-a-way-to-fully-use-their-watch-offlineOur best bet is suunto open sourcing the usb protocol: vote here
https://forum.suunto.com/topic/1744/open-source-movescount-web/33 -
Bernard London, Sunnto movescount and planned obsolescence
The term “planned obsolescence” was introduced by Bernard London in his paper
from 1932 “Ending the Depression Through Planned Obsolescence”. By marking
everything produced with a lifetime (determined by the goverment). The consumer
accepts that the product is obsolete after its lifetime has expired. After the
expiration date, the product is not to be used by the consumer and must be
handed over to the goverment for a small amunt of money in return.So an idea from the depression in the thirties, could it be of relevance today?
Have a look at the documentary: “The Light Bulb Conspiracy” -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdh7_PA8GZU
The programme was aired in 2010 and of many just considered as a ‘conspiracy’,
its now 2019, is the documentary still relevant? For example, The controversy over
the short lifespan of Apple’s IPOD’s battery and the associated legal processes
that followed are covered.Could we learn something from the “the Light Bulb Conspiracy” and the way that
Sunnto now decides the fait of the older Suunto watches: Ambit, Ambit2, M-serie,
T-serie, Quest?Yes, I own a very beloved Ambit2 watch!
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Will Suunto come shortly with a new update after all the feedback of their customers?
Or did suunto say goodbye to their customers already? -
Just bought (4 days ago) a new Ambit 3 Peak looking for its amazing battery, reliability and no-color display. I’ve had Ambits 2 run and 3 run, and I just sold a Fenix 3 (because of the color display).
Now Suunto says the new app will not allow me to load routes to my watch, which is the only functionality I need in a sports watch.Seriously thinking on returning the peak to the vendor…
Sorry for my English, I’m from Spain.
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@Luis-Andés-Olmedo I’m actually in the process of returning a Spartan Ultra. Even though it’s listed as fully supported, the idea of not knowing the state of things down the line has put me off. Always been really happy with my Ambits. Hopefully this is premeture on my part and I’ll be tempted back at some point down the line.
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@be1t0n said in Important news concerning our digital services:
@Luis-Andés-Olmedo I’m actually in the process of returning a Spartan Ultra. Even though it’s listed as fully supported, the idea of not knowing the state of things down the line has put me off. Always been really happy with my Ambits. Hopefully this is premeture on my part and I’ll be tempted back at some point down the line.
I’m also at that point! Suunto is supposed to support those functionalities as they are listening us but… what if not? I may have a wonderful watch that I can’t use for trail running (as I usually follow unknow routes)
Thank you for your comment.
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@photosheikh said in Important news concerning our digital services:
Extremely disappointing to hear the discontinuation of MovesCount.
I purchased my Ambit2 in 2013 and it has been my go to solution for recording and planning routes. My Ambit2 actually saved me from calling a helicopter rescue at the summit of Ben Nevis, when I activated the “Track Back” feature that guided me back to safety and below the snowline. Ever since that incident, I have had huge admiration for my Ambit2 and wear it with pride.
Since learning of Suunto’s announcement to stop supporting my watch it has been a great disappointment.
I need to upload GPX routes to my watch and download route data.
The worldwide Suunto community NEEDS an offline software solution for legacy Ambit watches.
And, as you, our colleague is writing, there are a lot of Suunto happy customers with old watches (Ambit 1 & 2) which are performing as ambassadors of Suunto outhere, and while they doesn’t buy a new suunto watch for years (because their own is running ok), they promote new sales for the company… Or make the worst marketing campaign for them. The best you treat users, the best they’ll reply.
Folks, the conversation is not here. I think nobody could understand or fully agree this Suunto news, so now, it’s time for a Suunto movement… even I believe confidence from clients is totally injured for a few years.
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I remember discussions in this forum about pushing Suunto to reveal part of their plan (aka a roadmap) as soon as possible.
That’s what they did (partially) with Movescount, and now we see the results : a lot of (IMHO) extreme reactions whereas there’s still 1.5Y ahead to complete Suunto digital ecosystem to make it work and efficient to all.That’s great to react, and for what it’s worth I fully agree with the negative reaction for Ambit and current SA/movescount comparison, but again this is a heads up, not an anouncement of how things will be tomorrow…
We are (were) all Suunto believers here, so don’t you think Suunto wanted a live and direct reaction from their customers to understand what to do next and where they should put their effort? Rather than leaving us with a “this is how it is and that’s it”?
I think the neagtive reactions are multuple, loud and have been heard, so now let’s focus on helping the development of SA, suggesting great features, and waiting for the next comm from Suunto to react again… And in 1.5y it will still be time to drop Suunto if factually the SA ecosystem will not be up to the task.
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@jean-william-cousin said in Important news concerning our digital services:
I think the neagtive reactions are multuple, loud and have been heard, so now let’s focus on helping the development of SA, suggesting great features, and waiting for the next comm from Suunto to react again… And in 1.5y it will still be time to drop Suunto if factually the SA ecosystem will not be up to the task.
I understand and partially agree your positive POV. But I must remember you that the 1.5 years to MC death are, in some of the users who -me included- are testing SA from the start something totally different. For us it means: “Just 1.5 years and stay just with that awful beta app? Are you kidding me?”
You just need to check that in about 1.5 years of developing (including the work into the shadow priorly to the first beta), they just have a Sports-Tracker (13 years-old) app modified to upload workouts from the watch. Just that. And the app still does a bad job on that assignment (bad altitudes, bad data, bad graphs…). I know it has a custom sport design mode (but, sincerely, it’s just a copy&paste from the MC source… for sure). There is another feature added during this time: maps (but it was implemented on a tiny mode, as for example: you still can’t export GPX from the app, or select a f*cking file from the device).
The app still needs a HARD HARD WORK to implement basic functionalities as:
- calendar and planned trainings
- advanced trainings
- advanced graph visualizations (pan, zoom, merge data…)
Those are really important features and, AFAIK, it’s too an expensive and hard work to do. Pretty no one could rely that work would be made in just 1.5 years, because, sincerely, I don’t rely Suunto would hire a dozen developers to do that job. And if they were interested on do that, they would have done it before this press release.
