Lockdown setting suunto 9

GingerBeardMan · 1 Apr 2020, 09:31

What are the chances of getting a better GPS resolution at the expense of battery life so we can get more realistic representation of our miniature garden routes. I ran loops until my watch said 15km but when i measured the loop I did more like 20km.

isazi · 1 Apr 2020, 09:35

@GingerBeardMan I consider running in small confined spaces the same as running indoor, and use the treadmill mode (paired with a Stryd) for that. The usefulness of a GPS track in my own 10 square meters garden is very questionable, and I just want distance, time, pace.

GingerBeardMan · 1 Apr 2020, 09:37

thanks, unfortunately i don’t own a stryd pod

isazi · 1 Apr 2020, 09:39

@GingerBeardMan would work even without (or with any footpod). May be less precise without a footpod, but better than with GPS.

GingerBeardMan · 1 Apr 2020, 09:40

thanks, I’ll give it a go

isazi · 1 Apr 2020, 09:42

@GingerBeardMan I am just commenting because GPS is not made to give you accurate tracks in a confined space, and will never be, no matter how much battery power you may want to give up on your watch.

GingerBeardMan · 1 Apr 2020, 09:52

I was just looking at the GPX file exported from movescount and the time stamps show a GPS resolution that varies as high as 6 seconds in some cases. was wondering if there was a way to prioritize GPS to achieve closer to the 1 seconds resolution as advertised

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos · 1 Apr 2020, 10:12

Please don’t confuse sampling rates with GPS. Most providers (even Strava ) linearly interpolate the distance. (to fill 1s)

We don’t support gpx export btw. So you probably are using sports tracker data which are not compatible with what your watch records. They are too simplified and a different model.

As it has been said before, you cannot really record small loops. The GPS avg error is about 7 meters. That means that if you don’t move more let’s say than a 7 meters in general it might error, thus no record of data.

As it has been said before, GPS is not made for this kinda thing. Or at least yet, there is a chnace that maybe this chnages especially for BEIDOU.

That said, you can try if you own a suunto 9:

Use BEIDOU.

Or you can try the fused track, eg enabling endurance mode.
That will power up all internal things to do inertial GNSs extrapolation. It might work but maybe no. Give it a try and I am eager to see the results.

GingerBeardMan · 4 Apr 2020, 14:02

Hi Dimitrios,
I tried Beidou with no noticable difference.
I was just curious about the GPX data points(Sportstracker and movescount) because if I walk slowly, I get an accurate measurement, 160m out and back across the property(very accurate), when i run i get 110 to 130m per lap. This is why I suspected resolution rather than accuracy as I thought maybe the ends of each lap were being missed because they occurred between gps readings.
I have resorted to using the watch to just count laps, had a problem this morning when I pushed the lap button for lap 62, the watch reset. I’ve never had my watch reset during a workout before.

A Former User · 4 Apr 2020, 14:05

@GingerBeardMan said in Lockdown setting suunto 9:

thanks, unfortunately i don’t own a stryd pod

Get a regular footpod. I think Zwift one used to be like $25 and it’s reasonably accurate.

GingerBeardMan · 4 Apr 2020, 14:16

@NickK total lockdown here. We can’t even order non-essentials online so, by the time I get it, I won’t need it

A Former User · 4 Apr 2020, 19:25

@GingerBeardMan said in Lockdown setting suunto 9:

@NickK total lockdown here. We can’t even order non-essentials online so, by the time I get it, I won’t need it

Tough love! Can you claim footpod as essential? We are supposed to have all non-essential businesses closed where I live. Apparently, bakeries, liquor, and flower stores count among essentials. Because they all are very much opened.

isazi · 4 Apr 2020, 16:13

@GingerBeardMan even without the footpod, use the treadmill activity and swing your arms. Better than just laps

GingerBeardMan · 4 Apr 2020, 16:35

@isazi attempted this but got same results. did try excessive arm swinging though

GingerBeardMan · 4 Apr 2020, 16:37

@NickK If only. we have the army enforcing lockdown, no cutting corners

GingerBeardMan · 5 Apr 2020, 13:40

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos the fused track was much worse. I did 15km: 75x200m loops. My watch measured just over 9.5km and my trace was all over the neighborhood:)

GingerBeardMan · 7 Apr 2020, 11:36

@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos Sorry to be argumentative but the files exported from movescount show gaps of up to 8 seconds between data points I can’t imagine other manufacturers just fabricate 6 out of every 8 GPS points to achieve their advertised 1 second resolution. My Old Tomtom multisport is out performing my suunto 9. Is this just one of the costs of havin long battery life.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos · 4 Jul 2020, 12:46

@GingerBeardMan Hi please dont use GPX files (Why the obsession with that? ) . This is how GPS tracking works in all modern applications.

As an engineer on this subject with all the respect, because your Tomtom Did 1s interpolation doens’t mean that this is what happened neither what leading technology should do. I personally don’t like this type of argument. There are many reasons for that to happen on your old tom tom and mostly was not due to GPS but rather software extrapolation and interpolation on the export. (Yes I have worked on TomTom data )

Here is an example of loose records and how FIT files from Suunto app are generated. Movescount had many issues on this part and this functionality will go away

100:
timestamp: Sat Apr 04 2020 15:01:45 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) {}
position_lat: 49.87775534391403
position_long: 14.683535909280181
distance: 379.5
heart_rate: 162
altitude: 404
speed: 4.031
activity_type: "running"
cadence: 89
power: 287
accumulated_power: 34748
stance_time: 224
stance_time_balance: 48.5
vertical_oscillation: 93
vertical_ratio: 6.5
step_length: 1310
__proto__: Object
101:
timestamp: Sat Apr 04 2020 15:01:46 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) {}
position_lat: 49.87772106193006
position_long: 14.683511098846793
distance: 384
heart_rate: 163
altitude: 404
speed: 4.056
activity_type: "running"
cadence: 88
power: 283
accumulated_power: 35031
stance_time: 228
stance_time_balance: 47.2
vertical_oscillation: 91
vertical_ratio: 6
step_length: 1330
__proto__: Object
102:
timestamp: Sat Apr 04 2020 15:01:47 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) {}
position_lat: 49.877690551802516
position_long: 14.683481510728598
distance: 388.5
heart_rate: 163
altitude: 404
speed: 4.056
activity_type: "running"
cadence: 87
power: 289
accumulated_power: 35320
stance_time: 234
stance_time_balance: 48
vertical_oscillation: 95
vertical_ratio: 6.5
step_length: 1340
__proto__: Object
103:
timestamp: Sat Apr 04 2020 15:01:48 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) {}
position_lat: 49.87765618599951
position_long: 14.683452928438783
distance: 393
heart_rate: 162
altitude: 404
speed: 4.056
activity_type: "running"
cadence: 87
power: 295
accumulated_power: 35615
stance_time: 241
stance_time_balance: 48.8
vertical_oscillation: 100
vertical_ratio: 7
step_length: 1350
timestamp: Sat Apr 04 2020 15:01:49 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) {}
position_lat: 49.87762190401554
position_long: 14.683426190167665
distance: 397
heart_rate: 163
altitude: 404
speed: 4.056
activity_type: "running"
cadence: 88
power: 294
accumulated_power: 35909
stance_time: 241
stance_time_balance: 47.3
vertical_oscillation: 101
vertical_ratio: 7.2
step_length: 1350
__proto__: Object
105:
timestamp: Sat Apr 04 2020 15:01:50 GMT+0200 (Central European Summer Time) {}
position_lat: 49.87758368253708
position_long: 14.6833985298872
distance: 401
heart_rate: 164
altitude: 404
speed: 4.056
activity_type: "running"
cadence: 90
power: 294
accumulated_power: 36203
stance_time: 242
stance_time_balance: 45.9
vertical_oscillation: 102
vertical_ratio: 7.5
step_length: 1350

With all the respect:

GPS polling on the watch happens every 1second.
Depending on the signal quality and other errors the distance is calculated every 1s if possible (also accounting accelerometer)
GPX files cannot export non tree stuctures meaning that for each track record you need to interpolate or remove other track records if there are no data. For example if you miss coordinates but you have distance you cannot create a trackrecord as they dont support track records without coordinates.
FIT files is what you should use.

Some side notes:

Running on a tarrace we dont measure the x,y you need to measure a circle by defining the radious.
Running on a circle you will injure your self eventually if you dont change direction as one foot will push more than the other.
GPS error is about ~5m in the best. If your tarrace is not >5m as of a radious I cannot imagine this can work with any equipemnt.
Educate your self since you are on it about accuracy. Dual frequency antennas and what is possible. for 5m loops I am sorry but this is not possible. To get a kinda good GPS “circle” you need 5m + 5m = 10m radious at least! That is if you have the best GPS signal! In normal conditions it should be 7m + 7m = 14m radious.

Here is a site that can help you and here is the image of what I am talking about

https://fellrnr.com/wiki/GPS_Accuracy

Image of how accuracy works

P.S. I am sorry if this sounds a bit agressive but I got a bit on my nerves because I tend to think that you are trying to create a problem for something that it’s not naturally possible in a way. I understand that and sorry.
PS1.5 Please don’t focus on the 1s GPX export, that is not the reason for your issue.
P.S2: Will a A3P work better than your S9? Perhaps. Perhaps even your old tom tom due to the antenna being external and patch (always looking at the sky)

Here is the problem with circular antennas and how sony solved it:

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/e/products/lsi/gps/technology.html

Note this:

The targeted low-cost and low-power system design, along with the expected harsh operational environment, derived us to face exceptional GNSS signal reception conditions.

Sony Semiconductor Solutions GPS/GNSS receiver/processor chips use a proprietary positioning algorithm to enable accurate positioning in a challenging environment, such as the skyscrapers of Shinjuku (i.e., multi-path environment) and/or when running on an athletics track (i.e., body effect, such as arms swinging and swimming).

(I would google GNSS body effect if I was you )

Take it easy, be healthy and protect your self. I’ts more important to be healthy than to get perfect GPS on a tarrance.

GingerBeardMan · 7 Apr 2020, 13:03

I’m sorry if I’m pissing you off. Let me me just shut up and be happy with what I have.

Dimitrios Kanellopoulos · 7 Apr 2020, 13:08

@GingerBeardMan nah man. It’s all good. But just those comparisons like : Simpsons did it.

On the contrary you gave place for some good analysis for tarrace runners.

You didn’t piss me off per se, but rather step on nerves.

It’s all good and it was my mistake to get nerves. I am the d528head here