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5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o

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  • ? Offline
    A Former User @ChrisA
    last edited by 11 Oct 2021, 18:38

    @chrisa said in 5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o:

    So I guess fasting and activity should (to a certain point where one has fasted too long) not be a problem and I could imagine that somehow it makes you more “committed” or gives you some “enhanced” feeling !?

    You could be right on this one as I perform much better in the morning on empty stomach, than on evening, when I already had some meal over the day.

    D C 2 Replies Last reply 11 Oct 2021, 18:53 Reply Quote 1
    • D Offline
      DMytro @Guest
      last edited by 11 Oct 2021, 18:53

      @andrasveres or it might be because you are getting tired over the day?

      ? 1 Reply Last reply 11 Oct 2021, 19:19 Reply Quote 0
      • ? Offline
        A Former User @DMytro
        last edited by A Former User 10 Nov 2021, 19:33 11 Oct 2021, 19:19

        @dmytro might be that too. If you ask me, I think it’s a complex equation. (for which I can’t give respectful result without transforming myself into a lab rat) 🙂

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • C Offline
          ChrisA Platinum Member @Guest
          last edited by 11 Oct 2021, 20:11

          @andrasveres same here - I run best after some water or coffee in the morning without eating anything or only small amounts . But it’s for sure a very complex topic and I think it’s very individual

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          • B Offline
            Brad_Olwin Moderator @ChrisA
            last edited by Brad_Olwin 10 Nov 2021, 20:42 11 Oct 2021, 20:40

            @chrisa said in 5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o:

            @brad_olwin
            „When glycogen is used up, muscle protein is broken down into amino acids. The liver uses amino acids to create glucose through biochemical reactions called gluconeogenesis“ (University of Michigan: https://www.uofmhealth.org/health-library/uq1238abc ) and that happens as a normal means to provide the body with energy when there are not enough carbohydrates and/or fat is available.

            While the liver does produce glucose from the carbon backbones derived from some amino acids, the muscle does not break down muscle protein and release AAs into the blood unless under severe fasting (starvation). This is rhabdomyolysis or severe muscle atrophy and only occurs in extreme circumstances. Muscle does not release amino acids when glycogen stores are low.

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            C J 2 Replies Last reply 11 Oct 2021, 21:48 Reply Quote 1
            • C Offline
              ChrisA Platinum Member @Brad_Olwin
              last edited by 11 Oct 2021, 21:48

              @brad_olwin said in 5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o:

              Muscle does not release amino acids when glycogen stores are low.

              Yes agree that thats not the case! I mean something different (perhaps my English is not good enough to make it understandable 🙄😞 I recognised that muscles get being “built back/down“ at my own body, when I was still doing lots of strength training besides martial arts. I had very strong biceps and triceps muscles and a upper arm circumfence at around 40 cm back then and when I stopped working out (after university), this muscles got less quite fast (within months) and my arms got smaller, without changing my diet much. I think the body converts back muscle tissue when the stimulus, that caused them to grow in the first place vanishes and also when there is too less muscle building protein in the food you consume. But since I am neither a doctor nor a biologist this can of course be false. It’s how I understand it and experienced it by myself.

              B 1 Reply Last reply 12 Oct 2021, 12:26 Reply Quote 0
              • D Online
                Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @Guest
                last edited by 12 Oct 2021, 07:27

                @andré-faria lets do this

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                • B Offline
                  Brad_Olwin Moderator @ChrisA
                  last edited by 12 Oct 2021, 12:26

                  @chrisa OK, I am a biologist, Professor of Molecular, Cellular and Developmental Biology. My laboratory research is skeletal muscle regeneration, aging of skeletal muscle and skeletal muscle stem cells. When muscle is not used or in a cast it does atrophy (get smaller). How this happens is not completely understood but the protein lost is likely used in the muscle and is not sent to the liver. During starvation or severe stress to muscle protein escapes muscle or is released and it is not healthy.

                  You are totally correct about the liver, whether low carb diets are healthy or not is debatable but processed foods with processed sugar are a problem, especially for controlling weight. The low carb fad is a fad and very few people that say they are on a ketogenic diet are actually ketogenic as it is very hard to do. Glucose is the best fuel source for intense efforts but if you want to train your muscle to use more fat as a fuel source the efforts need to be below the aerobic threshold (you can hold a normal conversation while running).

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                  C 1 Reply Last reply 12 Oct 2021, 13:39 Reply Quote 9
                  • C Offline
                    ChrisA Platinum Member @Brad_Olwin
                    last edited by ChrisA 10 Dec 2021, 14:00 12 Oct 2021, 13:39

                    @brad_olwin oh wow, that’s so great that you as a professional scientist can help me and the others to understand, thanks a lot! Actually I find it very interesting that we think we “know“ how processes are happening but in reality it’s not finally clear, how they really work on a cellular or molecular level, like you say it is the case when muscle is being reduced due to lacking stimulation. I was thinking the same when the Nobel prizes in medicine we’re given to scientists who found out how the processes of sensing temperature and pressure (?) are working - something as a layman one would consider obvious and simple but on the professional scientific level seems to be very complex.

                    Concerning ketogenic diets, I made the experience that it seemed to make me loose excess weight fast, but I can not say if the reason is purely because of metabolism changes or if just by not drinking alcohol and eating sweets I just had a a higher calorie deficit than usual.

                    I found it not very comfortable and changed to a „normal“ diet and now enjoy pasta and the many breads we have in Germany and from time to time a glass of red wine again, though I rarely drink alcoholic beverages anymore since then. Somehow I recognised that I don’t need them on a daily or even week(end)ly basis 😀

                    L 1 Reply Last reply 12 Oct 2021, 17:03 Reply Quote 1
                    • J Offline
                      jmoneygrip Bronze Member
                      last edited by 12 Oct 2021, 14:47

                      @Brad_Olwin speaks the sport science gospel, I’ve been studying this a lot lately. Because of that my food pyramid has 3 sides: protein, complex carbs, and fat!

                      Back on topic though, the run in this thread is well above aerobic threshold so sugar was burned as I stated earlier, not fat.

                      S9P
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                      • L Offline
                        lexterm77 Bronze Member @ChrisA
                        last edited by 12 Oct 2021, 17:03

                        @chrisa

                        You can think of it as economy model of supply/demand. What body sees no use for it does not spend energy maintaining it.

                        Astronauts pee out calcium from their bones as soon as body “sees” it does not needs it in micro G, it does not matter that their ancestors spent 4.5 billion years evolving under gravity. What did matter in past is that ancestors evolved 4.5 billion years where a cost/benefit situation is a reality and it applies under situations where food was scarce and ones that not utilize cost benefit dont simply survive.

                        C 1 Reply Last reply 13 Oct 2021, 06:46 Reply Quote 2
                        • J Offline
                          jim russell Bronze Member @Brad_Olwin
                          last edited by jim russell 12 Oct 2021, 19:35

                          @brad_olwin

                          I thought I recognised “Rhabdomylosis”: That’s what Aussie mountain biker Craig Gordon suffered from after the “24 hrs of Adrenaline” World MTB championships in 2006 (as featured in the docu-film “24 Solo”) He pushed himself incredibly hard and was hospitalised with it after the race…actually the article I just checked said it resulted in him being on dialysis for two days.

                          btw: “24 Solo” is a documentary about 24hr solo mtb racing if anyone hasn’t seen it - very good and worth a watch.

                          M 1 Reply Last reply 12 Oct 2021, 20:04 Reply Quote 1
                          • M Offline
                            MiniForklift Platinum Member @jim russell
                            last edited by 12 Oct 2021, 20:04

                            @jim-russell said in 5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o:

                            Rhabdomylosis

                            I remember listening to a few podcasts where elite runners have had it, not good at all and sounds like a very serious condition

                            I’m just watching a film on Michael McKnight attempting to break the Colorado Trail FKT, he’s a low carb ultrarunner. He even did a 100km race a while back on zero calories just to see if it can be done - think he finished in 17hrs and change which is darn impressive. Pretty sure he also won the Moab 240 last weekend

                            But diet aside, I think you need to find what works for you as no two athletes/people are going to be the same (unless you’re a twin) 😆

                            SV Titanium Solar Forest

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                            • Z Offline
                              zhang965 @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                              last edited by 12 Oct 2021, 20:42

                              @dimitrios-kanellopoulos said in 5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o:

                              I don’t eat carbs and I do best efforts. So where does my energy come from ?

                              The perhaps answer to this comes to studying blood glucose and how your body metabolizes fat but also when and how it’s stored.

                              I love to eat crabs, if you don’t eat crabs, do you eat any fish or lamb?

                              Winners Wear Winners

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                              • C Offline
                                ChrisA Platinum Member @lexterm77
                                last edited by 13 Oct 2021, 06:46

                                @lexterm77 said in 5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o:

                                You can think of it as economy model of supply/demand. What body sees no use for it does not spend energy maintaining it.

                                Yes that’s true - didn’t know the calcium thing 😀. Amazing that it adopts that fast.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • Z Offline
                                  zhang965
                                  last edited by zhang965 18 Oct 2021, 18:34

                                  Screenshot_20211018-203348.png Screenshot_20211018-203338.png

                                  I got 1g burned fat.

                                  Winners Wear Winners

                                  L 1 Reply Last reply 18 Oct 2021, 19:03 Reply Quote 0
                                  • L Offline
                                    lexterm77 Bronze Member @zhang965
                                    last edited by 18 Oct 2021, 19:03

                                    @zhang965

                                    How did you manage to extract 300cal from 50g of carbs?

                                    I Z 2 Replies Last reply 18 Oct 2021, 19:26 Reply Quote 0
                                    • I Offline
                                      isazi Moderator @lexterm77
                                      last edited by 18 Oct 2021, 19:26

                                      @lexterm77 isn’t 1 g of fat 8 (almost 9) calories?

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                                      L 1 Reply Last reply 18 Oct 2021, 20:22 Reply Quote 0
                                      • Z Offline
                                        zhang965 @lexterm77
                                        last edited by 18 Oct 2021, 19:47

                                        @lexterm77 said in 5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o:

                                        @zhang965

                                        How did you manage to extract 300cal from 50g of carbs?

                                        I don’t know, buy one get one free?

                                        Winners Wear Winners

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • L Offline
                                          lexterm77 Bronze Member @isazi
                                          last edited by lexterm77 18 Oct 2021, 20:22

                                          @isazi said in 5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o:

                                          @lexterm77 isn’t 1 g of fat 8 (almost 9) calories?

                                          Yes, add up all and you get approximately 4cal per gram of carbs or proteins and almost 9 cal per gram of fat. Anaerobic pathway you get one pay more not the other way around unless “debt” is included into caloric consumption or burner only calculates aerobic consumption?

                                          I 1 Reply Last reply 18 Oct 2021, 20:50 Reply Quote 0
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