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5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o

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  • C Offline
    ChrisA Platinum Member @Brad_Olwin
    last edited by 11 Oct 2021, 21:48

    @brad_olwin said in 5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o:

    Muscle does not release amino acids when glycogen stores are low.

    Yes agree that thats not the case! I mean something different (perhaps my English is not good enough to make it understandable šŸ™„šŸ˜ž I recognised that muscles get being ā€œbuilt back/downā€œ at my own body, when I was still doing lots of strength training besides martial arts. I had very strong biceps and triceps muscles and a upper arm circumfence at around 40 cm back then and when I stopped working out (after university), this muscles got less quite fast (within months) and my arms got smaller, without changing my diet much. I think the body converts back muscle tissue when the stimulus, that caused them to grow in the first place vanishes and also when there is too less muscle building protein in the food you consume. But since I am neither a doctor nor a biologist this can of course be false. It’s how I understand it and experienced it by myself.

    B 1 Reply Last reply 12 Oct 2021, 12:26 Reply Quote 0
    • D Offline
      Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @Guest
      last edited by 12 Oct 2021, 07:27

      @andrƩ-faria lets do this

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      • B Offline
        Brad_Olwin Moderator @ChrisA
        last edited by 12 Oct 2021, 12:26

        @chrisa OK, I am a biologist, Professor of Molecular, Cellular and Developmental Biology. My laboratory research is skeletal muscle regeneration, aging of skeletal muscle and skeletal muscle stem cells. When muscle is not used or in a cast it does atrophy (get smaller). How this happens is not completely understood but the protein lost is likely used in the muscle and is not sent to the liver. During starvation or severe stress to muscle protein escapes muscle or is released and it is not healthy.

        You are totally correct about the liver, whether low carb diets are healthy or not is debatable but processed foods with processed sugar are a problem, especially for controlling weight. The low carb fad is a fad and very few people that say they are on a ketogenic diet are actually ketogenic as it is very hard to do. Glucose is the best fuel source for intense efforts but if you want to train your muscle to use more fat as a fuel source the efforts need to be below the aerobic threshold (you can hold a normal conversation while running).

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        C 1 Reply Last reply 12 Oct 2021, 13:39 Reply Quote 9
        • C Offline
          ChrisA Platinum Member @Brad_Olwin
          last edited by ChrisA 10 Dec 2021, 14:00 12 Oct 2021, 13:39

          @brad_olwin oh wow, that’s so great that you as a professional scientist can help me and the others to understand, thanks a lot! Actually I find it very interesting that we think we ā€œknowā€œ how processes are happening but in reality it’s not finally clear, how they really work on a cellular or molecular level, like you say it is the case when muscle is being reduced due to lacking stimulation. I was thinking the same when the Nobel prizes in medicine we’re given to scientists who found out how the processes of sensing temperature and pressure (?) are working - something as a layman one would consider obvious and simple but on the professional scientific level seems to be very complex.

          Concerning ketogenic diets, I made the experience that it seemed to make me loose excess weight fast, but I can not say if the reason is purely because of metabolism changes or if just by not drinking alcohol and eating sweets I just had a a higher calorie deficit than usual.

          I found it not very comfortable and changed to a ā€žnormalā€œ diet and now enjoy pasta and the many breads we have in Germany and from time to time a glass of red wine again, though I rarely drink alcoholic beverages anymore since then. Somehow I recognised that I don’t need them on a daily or even week(end)ly basis šŸ˜€

          L 1 Reply Last reply 12 Oct 2021, 17:03 Reply Quote 1
          • J Offline
            jmoneygrip Bronze Member
            last edited by 12 Oct 2021, 14:47

            @Brad_Olwin speaks the sport science gospel, I’ve been studying this a lot lately. Because of that my food pyramid has 3 sides: protein, complex carbs, and fat!

            Back on topic though, the run in this thread is well above aerobic threshold so sugar was burned as I stated earlier, not fat.

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            • L Offline
              lexterm77 Bronze Member @ChrisA
              last edited by 12 Oct 2021, 17:03

              @chrisa

              You can think of it as economy model of supply/demand. What body sees no use for it does not spend energy maintaining it.

              Astronauts pee out calcium from their bones as soon as body ā€œseesā€ it does not needs it in micro G, it does not matter that their ancestors spent 4.5 billion years evolving under gravity. What did matter in past is that ancestors evolved 4.5 billion years where a cost/benefit situation is a reality and it applies under situations where food was scarce and ones that not utilize cost benefit dont simply survive.

              C 1 Reply Last reply 13 Oct 2021, 06:46 Reply Quote 2
              • J Offline
                jim russell Bronze Member @Brad_Olwin
                last edited by jim russell 12 Oct 2021, 19:35

                @brad_olwin

                I thought I recognised ā€œRhabdomylosisā€: That’s what Aussie mountain biker Craig Gordon suffered from after the ā€œ24 hrs of Adrenalineā€ World MTB championships in 2006 (as featured in the docu-film ā€œ24 Soloā€) He pushed himself incredibly hard and was hospitalised with it after the race…actually the article I just checked said it resulted in him being on dialysis for two days.

                btw: ā€œ24 Soloā€ is a documentary about 24hr solo mtb racing if anyone hasn’t seen it - very good and worth a watch.

                M 1 Reply Last reply 12 Oct 2021, 20:04 Reply Quote 1
                • M Offline
                  MiniForklift Platinum Member @jim russell
                  last edited by 12 Oct 2021, 20:04

                  @jim-russell said in 5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o:

                  Rhabdomylosis

                  I remember listening to a few podcasts where elite runners have had it, not good at all and sounds like a very serious condition

                  I’m just watching a film on Michael McKnight attempting to break the Colorado Trail FKT, he’s a low carb ultrarunner. He even did a 100km race a while back on zero calories just to see if it can be done - think he finished in 17hrs and change which is darn impressive. Pretty sure he also won the Moab 240 last weekend

                  But diet aside, I think you need to find what works for you as no two athletes/people are going to be the same (unless you’re a twin) šŸ˜†

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                  • Z Offline
                    zhang965 @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                    last edited by 12 Oct 2021, 20:42

                    @dimitrios-kanellopoulos said in 5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o:

                    I don’t eat carbs and I do best efforts. So where does my energy come from ?

                    The perhaps answer to this comes to studying blood glucose and how your body metabolizes fat but also when and how it’s stored.

                    I love to eat crabs, if you don’t eat crabs, do you eat any fish or lamb?

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                    • C Offline
                      ChrisA Platinum Member @lexterm77
                      last edited by 13 Oct 2021, 06:46

                      @lexterm77 said in 5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o:

                      You can think of it as economy model of supply/demand. What body sees no use for it does not spend energy maintaining it.

                      Yes that’s true - didn’t know the calcium thing šŸ˜€. Amazing that it adopts that fast.

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                      • Z Offline
                        zhang965
                        last edited by zhang965 18 Oct 2021, 18:34

                        Screenshot_20211018-203348.png Screenshot_20211018-203338.png

                        I got 1g burned fat.

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                        L 1 Reply Last reply 18 Oct 2021, 19:03 Reply Quote 0
                        • L Offline
                          lexterm77 Bronze Member @zhang965
                          last edited by 18 Oct 2021, 19:03

                          @zhang965

                          How did you manage to extract 300cal from 50g of carbs?

                          I Z 2 Replies Last reply 18 Oct 2021, 19:26 Reply Quote 0
                          • I Offline
                            isazi Moderator @lexterm77
                            last edited by 18 Oct 2021, 19:26

                            @lexterm77 isn’t 1 g of fat 8 (almost 9) calories?

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                            L 1 Reply Last reply 18 Oct 2021, 20:22 Reply Quote 0
                            • Z Offline
                              zhang965 @lexterm77
                              last edited by 18 Oct 2021, 19:47

                              @lexterm77 said in 5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o:

                              @zhang965

                              How did you manage to extract 300cal from 50g of carbs?

                              I don’t know, buy one get one free?

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                              • L Offline
                                lexterm77 Bronze Member @isazi
                                last edited by lexterm77 18 Oct 2021, 20:22

                                @isazi said in 5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o:

                                @lexterm77 isn’t 1 g of fat 8 (almost 9) calories?

                                Yes, add up all and you get approximately 4cal per gram of carbs or proteins and almost 9 cal per gram of fat. Anaerobic pathway you get one pay more not the other way around unless ā€œdebtā€ is included into caloric consumption or burner only calculates aerobic consumption?

                                I 1 Reply Last reply 18 Oct 2021, 20:50 Reply Quote 0
                                • I Offline
                                  isazi Moderator @lexterm77
                                  last edited by 18 Oct 2021, 20:50

                                  @lexterm77 yeah I read fat instead of carb, sorry šŸ˜‚

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                                  L 1 Reply Last reply 18 Oct 2021, 21:08 Reply Quote 0
                                  • L Offline
                                    lexterm77 Bronze Member @isazi
                                    last edited by 18 Oct 2021, 21:08

                                    @isazi

                                    turns out 5.5cal per gram of carbs, very strange šŸ˜†

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                                    • Z Offline
                                      zhang965
                                      last edited by 19 Oct 2021, 21:18

                                      Screenshot_20211019-231700.jpg Screenshot_20211019-231655.jpg

                                      1g fat
                                      60 g crarbs

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                                      H 1 Reply Last reply 19 Oct 2021, 21:34 Reply Quote 0
                                      • H Online
                                        herlas Silver Members @zhang965
                                        last edited by 19 Oct 2021, 21:34

                                        @zhang965 those HR zones seem wrong right? 179 green ? šŸ™‚

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                                        Z 1 Reply Last reply 20 Oct 2021, 05:36 Reply Quote 0
                                        • Z Offline
                                          zhang965 @herlas
                                          last edited by 20 Oct 2021, 05:36

                                          @herlas said in 5K effort won't burn any fat? O_o:

                                          @zhang965 those HR zones seem wrong right? 179 green ? šŸ™‚

                                          180 185 is my zone 3
                                          186 196 is z4
                                          Beyond 196 z5

                                          I did the test in a lab

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