Why I've shelved my Peak for a 9
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@dmytro The error is the same with the bug hills - it is just relatively small and therefore not noticeable. Basically, it loses a fixed amount of elevation gain on every single climb no matter how short or long it is. If there is only one large climb the error is relatively tiny compared to the overall elevation gain. However when there are a lot of small climbs, for example when running on rolling hills, the accumulated error may be significant. My estimate is that Suunto 9 Baro loses 3-7 meters (10-20 feet) per climb. The non baro version loses even more.
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@suzzlo Garmin is light years ahead of there competitors and I suspect they always will be. With that said, it’s likely that you’ll always have a reason to use Garmin. If you’re committed to Suunto (and that’s fine), you should probably stop using competitor devices since Suunto will likely always be behind or missing some feature that you like on a Garmin.
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@tyresej4 said in Why I've shelved my Peak for a 9:
Garmin is light years ahead of there competitors and I suspect they always will be.
That’s why, I think, Suunto needs to look for niches that Garmin neglects.
For example, two years of owning a Garmin has made it clear to me that Garmin, for the most part doesn’t understand, trail and ultra running. Garmin focuses either on road running, cycling, triathlon, etc or on slower activities like walking and hiking. But trail running has a number of challenges that Garmin deals very poorly with. The same probably applies to sports like MTB. That includes, challenging conditions for GPS reception and very dynamic pace that throws Garmin’s instant pace algorithm off and makes instant pace borderline unusable.
Years ago Suunto Ambit watches were super popular in my area among trail runners. When I was at a start of any serious trail running race I can guarantee that at least third if not half of all competitors would have an Ambit, and there were good reasons for that. Those people, for the most part, didn’t care about fitness features of Garmin, but needed a robust watch with bulletproof reliability and GPS that was accurate on wooded mountainous trails.
That is the niche that I think Suunto has mostly given up despite the fact that trail running is still growing rapidly. If Suunto really focused on trail running and especially mountain/trail adventure/ultra racing, it could shine again.
Just out of my head, features that would matter:
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Beat in class GPS accuracy.
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Tracking aid stations / checkpoints with remaining distance and progress against planned splits. That should also include tracking remaining ascent / descent to the next aid station or checkpoint. For ultra running it is essential to be able to split the entire distance into smaller segments and focus on each one separately.
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Accurate navigation directions. Having a map isn’t as essential as long as there is an easy way to generate/edit directions in advance and upload them to the watch. Suunto already had this for the most part, but a large screen / desktop route editing is needed.
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A function like Climb Pro or Hill Splitter that allows to track progress during climbing / descending
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Tracking timing of hydration and fueling.
Personally, I’d also really like to see a reliable implementation of Strava live segments. This is something that Garmin has implemented very poorly, especially for trail running segments.
The list above is probably just a slice of features that other trail runners would find essential. If Suunto could again position itself as a premier brand for trail / ultra / adventure running and racing, I think that would be great for is future.
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@sky-runner I completely understand your point, and unfortunately I have to say, that in my opinion Suunto right now is also behind in trailrunning.
Besides the snap to route function there is nothing a Garmin cannot not do (or even do better).
I love Suunto but the unreliable data and GPS problems might make me switch to Garmin (when my S9B dies). -
@sky-runner said in Why I've shelved my Peak for a 9:
For example, two years of owning a Garmin has made it clear to me that Garmin, for the most part doesn’t understand, trail and ultra running. Garmin focuses either on road running, cycling, triathlon, etc or on slower activities like walking and hiking. But trail running has a number of challenges that Garmin deals very poorly with. The same probably applies to sports like MTB. That includes, challenging conditions for GPS reception and very dynamic pace that throws Garmin’s instant pace algorithm off and makes instant pace borderline unusable.
FWIW My training partner switched to the Garmin Enduro from his S9B a good few months ago. He’s primarily a trail ultrarunner who averages around 100-130km/week and is winning many of the ultra’s he enters… if he doesn’t win he’s usually on the podium
According to his experiences of using both watches the Enduro is way ahead of the S9B and there’s actually nothing that the S9B does better than the Enduro. Altitude and elevation gain is more accurate (he runs in a group at least a couple of times a week where his S9B was usually considerably down in vert), Strava Live Segments are flawless, better GPS in heavy woodland or cloudy/overcast days and obviously better battery life
Maybe for some there’s personal preference on a few things, but when you have a top calibre runner that’s extensively used both watches with no particular bias to brand you shouldn’t write off his opinion. Maybe some of the cheaper Garmin watches don’t cater for trail or ultra runners but it seems clear to me that the Enduro most certainly does
SV Titanium Solar Forest
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@theguyfromthesummit, I tend to disagree. I have the opposite experience. My Garmin F6 provides messy data (e.g., training status - one big mess once you hit the trail you, of course, have lower VOmax and immediately I’m unproductive then I’m running on flat and I’m productive, etc.) compared S9P, but that’s individual for each person. Garmin gives you many features that you are impressed about at the start, and then you never use it, at least that’s my experience, e.g. find my phone - never working correctly, wallet - you scared that they get hit again by hackers, music - disappears from the watch, etc.
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@markytarky I mainly struggle with GPS accuracy. My S9B (even after replacing the GPS unit) is strongly off at at least 20% of my runs.
So far I don’t know if this affects the distance. -
@theguyfromthesummit I’m sorry to hear that, but that’s “One of” cases. There are many things on S9B which are troubled, but GPS is not usually that thing.
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Talking about the Garmin Enduro…There’s quite a Suunto-like look to this watch.
Chunky, solid construction. Large, flat display. Big round buttons. Polished metal bezel. Long battery life.
The other Garmin watches have a cheaper look to them, kinda Casio-like.
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@miniforklift Your trail runner friend’s experience is perfectly valid, and I don’t doubt it for a second. But to reinforce my long-held belief that it’s not about finding the “best watch” but rather the “best watch for you,” I have to recall this blog post from an ultra runner, who sold his Enduro as quickly as he could once he tested it because of its shortcomings for his needs:
http://www.ultrakrautrunning.com/2021/12/gear-review-garmin-enduro-gps-watch.html?m=1
This article doesn’t mean everyone would hate that watch, or that your friend is indicative of everyone loving the watch, but just that athletes need to find the right combination of GPS accuracy, battery life, elevation data, impact durability, etc. that fits their time out on the trails.
Suunto Vertical / 9 Peak Pro (gifted away) / 9 Baro / 5 Peak (lost on adventure) / Vector
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Trail Runner / Hiker / Kickboxer
Instagram: @rytipps -
Why I have today decided to shelve my Peak.
Like the original Poster my eye sight is not getting any better with age and I find it difficult to see the data on the screen when I am running, either on paths or trail; I cant see the Time at all on the activity screen (its just too small).I actually get pretty good GPS tracks and certainly cant complain about those, I must have good coverage where I am, unless I go under any trees, whether in Leaf or Not it just goes all over the place
I do like the varying background light - cant think of its official name.The Number 1 issue I have with the Peak is the dropping of HR Data mid activity, it happens too often; I have just replaced my HR Belt in case it was the H10 having issues, but Nope my brand New H9 is also being dropped, worse on longer runs, e.g. 1/2 marathon trails or roads.
it is just getting annoying.My next watch will have to have Ant+ I find Its just more reliable and creates a stable connection - Fenix 6 or Coros Vertex or Apex Pro! - not sure which one yet but leaning towards coros (they are definitely getting a good name for themselves in the trail running community).
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@tonyg otherwise you could try suunto HR belt, as it stores hr date, you shouldn’t experience any problems.
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@dmytro, thank you: def a good suggestion. I did have one, bought a replacement belt (new type) as I was getting strange readings but it must have been the module it self never got it to work again, went onto the Suunto site to buy a replacement module but couldn’t for months - hence moving to polar h10 belt, now they are available they don’t sell module on its own, as I already have a new belt I didn’t want to shell out £70 when I could get H9 £40.
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@tonyg you did try fresh batteries too? You could also try searching for new module on eBay, I’ve seen some pretty reasonably priced options.
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@dmytro yes, fresh battery installed - nothing would see it to pair so I assumed it kaput!
I do occasionally check eBay, thanks for the reminder I haven’t done so in a while but will keep my eyes open, I wont be jumping ship until at least new year so one is hopeful but due to the small fonts on the peak I am switching back to my S9B, so a HR Solution is still important to me. -
@tonyg cannot comment on eyesight, it’s a very personal thing, but I’ve never had issues with the HR dropping, either optical or with a Suunto strap or with a Polar OH1.
Anyway some people say that Bluetooth is actually superior to ANT+ for reliability e.g. https://pca.st/episode/fc403ed6-92e1-41b4-b1c0-1a93161d4edb
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@tonyg interesting, never thought that watch can be a problem, I have drops in combination with H10 too…
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@likarnik I’ve asked the Suunto field testers data on tests with the H10 as I don’t have one. If there are issues and can be solved on the watch I’m sure they’ll get fixed.
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@likarnik Apparently its to do with R-R drops, if for any reason your belt drops or Bluetooth fails to receive even 1 R-R packet then it throws the HR data as was explained to me by @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos the odd thing is the watch displays the correct HR Value, just not recording it.
There have been a couple of others on this forum that have experienced dropouts with polar belts (add a brand new H9) to that list as of today - I use the Sonogel to try and combat the issue of dropouts of R-R, I also wear cotton or Merino t-shirt to reduce chance of static etc.Using the Suunto Smart belt should get around the issue as mentioned by @DMytro as it records the session on the belt, not sure how much data it will record before overwriting itself though, may be worth exploring in case you do multi-day events, be interesting to know anyway if anyone has that info.
@isazi I am not a radio guru so I wont pretend to be; but when I have used the Ant+ protocol with polar / suunto belts they have been rock solid, no dropouts with the devices they are attached too, I never had issues with Suunto Duel Ant Hr belts in the Ambit 2 days or the TC3 etc and as such personal experience has been a positive and trustworthy one, hence any future device for me will have to have Ant+.
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@tonyg I read somewhere it should be around 3 hours, depending on HR values, I think it was mentioned in the forum and in the belt manual. But I suspect it should be more than enough, since, I think, belt transfers the data to the watch during an activity once it re-establishes connection.
