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New software update for S9P-S9B-S9-S5P-S5 and S3 devices 2.20.28

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  • F Offline
    freeheeler @TyreseJ4
    last edited by freeheeler 14 May 2022, 20:49

    @tyresej4
    I know people that are most certainly much fitter than I am and their VO2max value doesn’t even come close to mine. They do different sports than I do. Sports that we’ve seen result in a lower general VO2max.
    I don’t know how VO2max works either, but I can only assume that it is a combination of certain activities with suppression of “noise” between activities. If you don’t reach your max HR, VO2max could be estimated for this specific activity only and hence drop? Just a wild guess…

    What I wonder: why are you so confident to say that Suunto is wrong? I would like to understand by an example.

    living sideways

    T 1 Reply Last reply 14 May 2022, 20:56 Reply Quote 1
    • T Offline
      TyreseJ4 @freeheeler
      last edited by TyreseJ4 14 May 2022, 20:56

      @freeheeler Great points! To answer your question, an example would be a run I did just the other day when I wore my Suunto 9 on my right arm to test GPS pace without STRYD against the 945. My Suunto 9 has always been really good in that regard…in fact it’s outstanding when it comes to reliably (connection, pace, distance, etc.). When I started the run my Vo2 max (according to the watch) was 52. When I finished it dropped down to 49.6??? again I know the numbers aren’t a real representation of what your Vo2 max probably is, but it appears the watch punishes you for easy runs or runs that aren’t intervals or tempo pace. Perhaps someone could explain to me how it works because my numbers on Garmin don’t budge unless I stop running for weeks at a time. In fact my numbers on Garmin go up with easy runs where my HR is clearly lower than the last time I did a similar easy run. It seems to consider small improvements in fitness based on effort, which makes a bit more sense to me…of course assuming that’s how it works. The problem could be I simply don’t understand how the Suunto 9 calculates Vo2.

      F 1 Reply Last reply 14 May 2022, 21:05 Reply Quote 1
      • F Offline
        freeheeler @TyreseJ4
        last edited by 14 May 2022, 21:05

        @tyresej4
        I know what you mean. I can tell that my VO2max actually got a bit higher when I started running slower with lower HR.
        We’ll never know what’s exactly behind the algorithms since it is companies secrets.
        Did you do “normal” running or trail running?

        living sideways

        T 1 Reply Last reply 14 May 2022, 21:11 Reply Quote 0
        • T Offline
          TyreseJ4 @freeheeler
          last edited by 14 May 2022, 21:11

          @freeheeler Mostly road, track, and treadmill. The new Suunto Guides feature is awesome on the road and treadmill! 👍🏾

          F 1 Reply Last reply 14 May 2022, 21:16 Reply Quote 1
          • F Offline
            freeheeler @TyreseJ4
            last edited by 14 May 2022, 21:16

            @tyresej4
            I think I’ll do a cooper test some day and compare this result with what the watch gives me. of course it like a laboratory test on the track. heat, humidity etc aren’t counted it.
            in “real” life, ascents and descents are difficult to count in and that’s where I see the challenge.
            https://www.verywellfit.com/fitness-test-for-endurance-12-minute-run-3120264
            a3854989-65c4-45d4-977d-e0dd35c3b6c3-image.png

            living sideways

            T 1 Reply Last reply 14 May 2022, 21:21 Reply Quote 1
            • T Offline
              TyreseJ4 @freeheeler
              last edited by 14 May 2022, 21:21

              @freeheeler I think Running with Marc did a YouTube video on that test. I’ve always wanted to try it but never got around to it. Lol with all this discussion and interest in Vo2 max, now might be a time to try it.

              F 2 Replies Last reply 14 May 2022, 21:28 Reply Quote 1
              • F Offline
                freeheeler @TyreseJ4
                last edited by 14 May 2022, 21:28

                @tyresej4
                🙂 maybe I will, maybe even this week, despite hay fever that will set me back.

                living sideways

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • D Offline
                  DMytro @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                  last edited by 15 May 2022, 09:51

                  @dimitrios-kanellopoulos if suunto figures out, how to predict vO2max from walks and/or hikes with a high elevation gain but in an easy terrain, I think it will be first on the market to do so.
                  Even polar fails to achieve that with their dedicated walking test.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • B Offline
                    Brad_Olwin Moderator @TyreseJ4
                    last edited by 16 May 2022, 12:06

                    @tyresej4 said in New software update for S9P-S9B-S9-S5P-S5 and S3 devices 2.20.28:

                    @brad_olwin For the most part I think your post are EXTREMELY helpful. Other times (especially when there’s honest critique of Suunto), you can be unfair. If I buy a device that cost $499, and it says it has a “feature” that I’m interested in, am I not being fair to expect it to work and make a little bit of sense? One of the first things I noticed with Garmin is that the features work. NOT perfectly, but they work. That’s all I ask is that it does something close to what was advertised. If a company can’t do that I’m ok with that. However the device should be significantly cheaper.

                    I have a Garmin, and if you like I can go over my likes and dislikes compared to Suunto, PM me if you want to. But, in terms of VO2Max I see the same behavior from Suunto and Garmin. For a marathon runner or shorter distances I think the feature works pretty well. For trail running I simply ignore it.

                    Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                    • I Offline
                      isazi Moderator @TyreseJ4
                      last edited by 16 May 2022, 12:50

                      @tyresej4 I know what you mean, but I cannot really comment on that. Both Garmin and Suunto work for me, giving me the same VO2max, same number I get with a Cooper test. I do not care about the number and would not pay more to have it, but I agree with you that it should work.

                      Watch: Suunto Vertical Ti

                      Blog: isazi's home

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                      • S Offline
                        suzzlo Moderator
                        last edited by 16 May 2022, 13:06

                        Hi all,

                        Yesterday I saw that Ray was presenting “an improved sleep algorithm” for Garmin devices and also, he is mentioning in the video that some time ago (1 year?), they have deliver a new Body Battery algorithm.

                        My question is? does someone know if this changes are from FirstBeat algos, and if they are going to be also included in Suuntos releases?

                        I’m just curious

                        Suunto: Race, S9Peak, Spartan Sport Wrist
                        Garmin: FR745, Edge 530
                        SA topics:

                        • Guides - https://forum.suunto.com/tags/guides
                        D D B 3 Replies Last reply 16 May 2022, 13:27 Reply Quote 1
                        • D Offline
                          DMytro @suzzlo
                          last edited by 16 May 2022, 13:27

                          @suzzlo body battery did receive new algo from firstbeat on Garmin, if it’s on suunto - good question.

                          As for sleep algo - I think it’s also from firstbeat on Garmin, but it’s in-house on suunto - so I wouldn’t expect an iterative update in this department - maybe suunto will provide additional metrics eventually, if hardware allows that is.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • D Online
                            dulko79 @suzzlo
                            last edited by 16 May 2022, 16:12

                            @suzzlo maybe it is hr sensor related, like effect of sampling rate. Plus licensing could be expensive.

                            App: beta
                            Phone: Iphone
                            iOS

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • B Offline
                              Brad_Olwin Moderator @suzzlo
                              last edited by 16 May 2022, 16:43

                              @suzzlo said in New software update for S9P-S9B-S9-S5P-S5 and S3 devices 2.20.28:

                              Hi all,

                              Yesterday I saw that Ray was presenting “an improved sleep algorithm” for Garmin devices and also, he is mentioning in the video that some time ago (1 year?), they have deliver a new Body Battery algorithm.

                              My question is? does someone know if this changes are from FirstBeat algos, and if they are going to be also included in Suuntos releases?

                              I’m just curious

                              I’ve been comparing Garmin and Suunto on these. For me, the sleep is as good or better on Suunto. The Garmin does not always agree with how I feel. I am not sure the sleep as all that helpful on Garmin. Too much information for me.
                              The Body Battery seems to work better for me than Resources as the latter seems to have a slower recovery. However, they are typically in reasonable agreement.

                              Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing

                              C S 2 Replies Last reply 16 May 2022, 21:11 Reply Quote 1
                              • C Offline
                                ChrisA Platinum Member @Brad_Olwin
                                last edited by 16 May 2022, 21:11

                                @brad_olwin agree on sleep! For me Garmin’s sleep tracking does not work well and pretty much contradicts its own body battery readings (e.g. I can have 99 or 100 % Body battery on wake-up and feel I had a good night s sleep and Garmin gives me a 58 Sleep score). For me that’s mostly because Garmin misses my deep sleep. But as I have realised here through you and others is, that I rely more on how I feel (both sleeping/relaxing and working out) and only second in what any sportswatch tells me 😀

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                • S Offline
                                  suzzlo Moderator @Brad_Olwin
                                  last edited by 17 May 2022, 04:39

                                  @brad_olwin I see also Resources quite slow compared to Garmin…but which is right? No idea

                                  I’m curious to know if the Suunto updates include also first beat updates (like they are doing with Sony GPS)

                                  BR

                                  Suunto: Race, S9Peak, Spartan Sport Wrist
                                  Garmin: FR745, Edge 530
                                  SA topics:

                                  • Guides - https://forum.suunto.com/tags/guides
                                  B 1 Reply Last reply 17 May 2022, 12:39 Reply Quote 0
                                  • B Offline
                                    Brad_Olwin Moderator @suzzlo
                                    last edited by 17 May 2022, 12:39

                                    @suzzlo I do not know how the Firstbeat works with updates. Garmin has updated theirs with Stamina, which has not worked well for me. In the races I have done so far I can go several hours with 0% stamina.
                                    For me Recovery Time is worse than Resources, I feel Resources are not that far off and if I switch between Suunto and Garmin as I said they are not that far off.
                                    Probably depends on how the license is provided.

                                    Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • F Offline
                                      freeheeler @TyreseJ4
                                      last edited by 18 May 2022, 15:42

                                      @tyresej4 said in New software update for S9P-S9B-S9-S5P-S5 and S3 devices 2.20.28:

                                      with all this discussion and interest in Vo2 max, now might be a time to try it.

                                      I did… 37.66 on the track… the watch shows 41.9

                                      living sideways

                                      D 1 Reply Last reply 18 May 2022, 16:11 Reply Quote 0
                                      • D Offline
                                        DMytro @freeheeler
                                        last edited by 18 May 2022, 16:11

                                        @freeheeler the watch shows cumulative value, doesn’t it? Could be that you were just tired etc.

                                        F 1 Reply Last reply 18 May 2022, 16:34 Reply Quote 1
                                        • F Offline
                                          freeheeler @DMytro
                                          last edited by 18 May 2022, 16:34

                                          @dmytro
                                          not sure if I’ve ever ran faster 😂
                                          …but it might have been not ideal after work in the afternoon sun at 28°C as a “snowman” 😉

                                          living sideways

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
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