What do you expect from the next update?

[Highlands]

@dreamer_ IMHO MiP watches amongst outdoor enthusiasts are preferred and amoled is a niche. Even though V2 screen works great for me and I like it very much, I certainly prefer MiP.
I guess Coros will come up with an MIP Vertix 4, so if Suunto decides to put an end to Verticals with MIP, they’ll lose sales.
The only thing I like better in my Garmin are maps and navigation. But Fenix series prices have gone through the freaking roof and I’m not sure whether I’d buy another Garmin again. Their devices are way too overpriced and I don’t need the Mickey Mouse metrics they feed me. Besides, my verticals have better GPS and elevation tracking than my Fenix. I have grown to trust Garmin less and less.

[dreamer_]

@Highlands 100% agree.
About Garmin, they have several stupid things like the smart recording that affect to accuracy and that should be avoided in settings.
My Fenix 8, at least where I live and in my trail runs in forest, is very accurate with both GNSS and altimeter. Very similar numbers as the V2 (and in fact my F8 altimeter seems marginally better). But, in my opinion, Garmin’s navigation, is still more accurate in almost everything (but the compass and the zooming in maps, where Suunto is better)

[Highlands]

@dreamer_ Hard to believe that smart recording still exist even in 8/8 pro series. This is the first thing I change on a new Garmin. For me, Suunto FusedAlti does better job than Garmin’s way of measuring altitude.

[duffman19]

Smart Recording is just a way to reduce file size by logging data only when it changes. So if your heart rate remains steady at 150 bpm for 5 seconds, it’ll only write one data point instead of 5. It has no effect on GNSS accuracy, distance, or any other statistics. Activities with Smart Recording will look identical to those with every second recording, just with fewer data points and a slightly smaller file size.

I tested the two settings awhile back and found that even with smart recording, GNSS points were still recorded every second. I assume this is because the precision is such that each reading is always going to be slightly different. The only real compression I could see was in the other stats like HR, pace, and elevation.

Even so, I still turn on “every second” recording, because why not?

[sky-runner]

@Highlands said:

IMHO MiP watches amongst outdoor enthusiasts are preferred and amoled is a niche

MIP has a worse contrast especially when paired with sapphire crystal. With age, eyes lose ability to clearly see low contrast details. I always preferred MIP but now I have switched to AMOLED and will never go back to MIP.

In my opinion MIP will become fully obsolete in a few years when microLED technology matures. MicroLED will provide high contrast and high resolution combined with higher efficiency approaching efficiency of MIP. And unlike AMOLED, microLED doesn’t have a problem with burn-in.

Also, nobody produces MIP displays anymore because there is very little demand for it. With sparse supply, the cost is higher. There maybe one or two producers of small round MIP displays remaining. That’s why it is being phased out by Garmin and other brands.

[sky-runner]

@stromdiddily said:

definitely some stuff to iron out around navigations last update…I couldn’t be more on route

And looking at your image, trail labels too. I don’t understand how this has been released and people at Suunto thought this was an acceptable solution. Even though, your image is enlarged, trail name is still very difficult to read because of how it is rendered with low contrast right on top of the trail. And on the small watch screen, it is borderline impossible to read - we’ve had a tread about that. I hope this gets addressed too.

And by the way, Garmin has no issue showing trail names at lower zoom levels. Suunto shows label only at the two highest zoom levels that I personally never use because they cover ridiculously small radius.

[Highlands]

@sky-runner I use both V1&V2 and find the V1 legibility is excellent. I’m not young at all. As of now, for me the only advantage of amoled is when I use the maps.
The first microLED has turned out to be a flop because the technology isn’t ready yet but kudos to Garmin for giving a try. Let’s wait and see what the future will bring. Who knows what will be the next new thing in terms of new screens technology.
I remember one post of @pavel.samokha where he write that amoled is easier for programming. Moreover, there used to be only two Japanese companies that made MiP and at the time of his post one of them was out of business.
Obviously, from a business strategy POV isn’t very wise to rely on only one supplier and the companies have already begun the transition to amoled.
Amoled might be better for some users in the outdoor community but I still believe that most folks there still prefer the MiP.

[Highlands]

@duffman19 Because when one’s watch does have 32 GB of memory I do prefer “every second”. Even my ancient Instinct 1 which has significantly less memory is ok with being set on every second.

[sky-runner]

@Highlands said:

I use both V1&V2 and find the V1 legibility is excellent

I don’t know about Vertical V1, but I had sapphire Fenix 6X and Fenix 7X, and both were difficult to read during winter months when running in a forest. In the open with sunny sky, it wasn’t a problem. 7X was significantly worse than 6X perhaps because of the added solar charging layer and the touch layer. To my eyes, the map often looked like a blur - I struggled to see any small details except the main route. AMOLED screens are much more readable.

[Highlands]

@sky-runner I still use 7XSS, definitely blurrier than my previous 6X Sapphire. But still no problem reading it. Personally, I’d prefer the monochrome screen of Instinct if it was technology-wise possible to put usable maps on it. I don’t need flashy, colorful screens on my wrist. But I understand that some minority of the outdoor community might be better off with amoled on their wrists.

[2b2bff]

@sky-runner said:

7X was significantly worse than 6X perhaps because of the added solar charging layer and the touch layer.

I was shocked to find that as I wanted to update the Fenix 6S Pro to a 7 Pro. I thought it would be a no brainer… That screen made me buy an Epix Pro in the end…

[Elipsus]

@sky-runner I keep seeing a lot of praise for Micro-LED, especially about battery life , yet the only implementation so far have a horrendous battery life
Fenix 8 pro - AMOLED - > 27 days (up to 15 days with always on)
Fenix 8 pro - MicroLED -> 10 days (up to 4 days with always on)
Fenix 8 (non pro) - MIPS -> 30 days with always on

The MicroLED is also heavier and thicker than AMOLED version

So, a 4x+ time reduction in battery life compared to a supposedly inferior technology, and 7x+ time less compared to MIPS, which its “supposed” to replace, I would not call that “approaching efficiency of MIP”

And if its about the price, considering the 51mm Fenix gets a 650€ price increase from AMOLED to MicroLED, i really, really don’t get it

MIPS is cheaper than MicroLED, slimmer than MicroLED, more efficient than both AMOLED and MicroLED and doesn’t have burn in issues

[dreamer_]

@sky-runner said:

@Highlands said:

IMHO MiP watches amongst outdoor enthusiasts are preferred and amoled is a niche

MIP has a worse contrast especially when paired with sapphire crystal. With age, eyes lose ability to clearly see low contrast details. I always preferred MIP but now I have switched to AMOLED and will never go back to MIP.

In my opinion MIP will become fully obsolete in a few years when microLED technology matures. MicroLED will provide high contrast and high resolution combined with higher efficiency approaching efficiency of MIP. And unlike AMOLED, microLED doesn’t have a problem with burn-in.

Also, nobody produces MIP displays anymore because there is very little demand for it. With sparse supply, the cost is higher. There maybe one or two producers of small round MIP displays remaining. That’s why it is being phased out by Garmin and other brands.

Garmin did a poor job with the Fenix 7/Pro and its solar panel. Furthermore, the sapphire crystal significantly compromises the MIP technology. Personally, I think the Fenix 8 MIP looks much better, though I believe they should have used the Power Glass from the Fenix 6X Pro Titanium Solar instead of sapphire (although that watch did have an inferior solar panel compared to the Fenix 8).

The Garmin Forerunner 955 (non-Solar) and the Coros Nomad are great examples; using them makes you realize just how good the technology is. Beyond being energy-efficient, it is the ideal technology for running in highly technical terrain and outdoor environments. But while those are very good, the Instinct 3 is truly impressive. There is something about that watch’s screen contrast that makes it perfectly legible even when your wrist is held almost vertically. That Instinct 3 has the same new Solar panel as the Fenix 8 . I don’t think I’ll ever go back to an AMOLED screen or deal with the wrist-gesture lag (which feels very slow on Suunto watches, by the way)—and I’ve owned screens from every brand.

I don’t think that microled energy efficient scenario will happen. Microled is very power hungry, a lot more than Amoled.
The super energy efficient technology is MIP, and that efficiency the hard thing to accomplish. What we need is just better crystals, nothing more. Fast, and easy solution.

[sartoric]

can we at least stay in topic ?

[thailon]

I expect THE update.

[VoiGAS]

@thailon I feel the same, if its just an update it still ensures the V1 is supported. Even if it just the post activity recovery feature or another gimmick.
The only thing I would really like would be the Running Dynamics features. But thats just hope, no expectation…

[Luis Andés Olmedo]

I do not expect any update, V1 has everything I need for my use. The only thing I’d improve is the HR sensor but that can’t be solved with a SW update

[Thaler Martin]

Endlich eine bessere wacherkennung beim schlaf …sie wird immer fast dir ganze mit leichtschlaf überschrieben…schlafzeiten manuell zu bearbeiten…Hauttemperatur Aufzeichnung in der Nacht…Verbesserung der Ressourcen die laden sich viel zu schnell auf und verlieren zu langsam nach unten…bin immer auf 70-100…
Sportbereich ist top bin begeistert davon…

[VoiGAS]

@Luis-Andés-Olmedo Maybe it can? They optimized OHR on the Race S with one of the last updates.
This would be really great, weight and OHR accuracy are the only reasons I use the Race S from time to time

[BrunoH]

@Luis-Andés-Olmedo

I’d be happy about the daily alarms. Currently I am adjusting my alarms every night according to my kids’ schedules. That’s all I need. Everything else works just fine for my needs.