To Suunto or not to Suunto
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Thinking out loud, I am curious about Suunto’s brand value in today’s market. Reason I ask is that when Garmin or Polar introduce top-of-the-line watches, their 2nd hand market value are maybe 10 or 15% lower for a month or two used watches. However, for the SV, I have been noticing resales at 40% and 25% lower than MRP for non-solar and solar versions respectively. This begs a few questions:
- are people really unhappy using the SV?
- is the pricing too high?
- do people really not value Suunto any more?
On point 2. the recent price revisions on 9PP suggests Suunto pricing strategy is not working. I wouldn’t be surprised if the SV prices also get revised downwards by Dec. The recent addition to Guides does try to rope in people Suunto alienated a while ago but it feels a little too late, which triggers my thinking around point 3. Point 1 is very subjective and surely some will be more happy than others but I have seen nearly 10 watches come up in local classifieds - small fraction but a little too soon given the recent release.
What do you guys think?
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@altcmd said in To Suunto or not to Suunto:
Thinking out loud, I am curious about Suunto’s brand value in today’s market. Reason I ask is that when Garmin or Polar introduce top-of-the-line watches, their 2nd hand market value are maybe 10 or 15% lower for a month or two used watches. However, for the SV, I have been noticing resales at 40% and 25% lower than MRP for non-solar and solar versions respectively. This begs a few questions:
- are people really unhappy using the SV?
- is the pricing too high?
- do people really not value Suunto any more?
On point 2. the recent price revisions on 9PP suggests Suunto pricing strategy is not working. I wouldn’t be surprised if the SV prices also get revised downwards by Dec. The recent addition to Guides does try to rope in people Suunto alienated a while ago but it feels a little too late, which triggers my thinking around point 3. Point 1 is very subjective and surely some will be more happy than others but I have seen nearly 10 watches come up in local classifieds - small fraction but a little too soon given the recent release.
What do you guys think?
- I’m happy about SV, I don’t use map, nor s+ app, nor long distance , it works perfectly without these things.
- No, the MRP should be higher, better set to 1000 euros for solar version.
- People that not value Suunto anymore, because they don’t have good taste, only Suunto community we are true ULTRA sportives.
Welcome to Suunto community
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@altcmd well i personally appreciate so and so much i have been a sub-customer since 2001, i started with my first dive computer with the Suunto stinger. then with the soundto d6 also a diving computer, then the complete mbit series, the new Baro, the new Pik, the new Peak pro, and now the vertical. I was super satisfied up to the last watch of the Suunto 9 Pik pro. there are various discrepancies with the current vertical, and nobody can say exactly how and what has to happen in order to prevent such malfunctions. Since I’ve had my watch personally, I’ve had to do a hard restart, completely reformat all sport modes, replay all maps on the watch three times, three soft resets. Things like sudden clock crashes were present. Suddenly there were no more cards to be seen, the heart rate sensor suddenly displayed heart rate values of up to 150 beats when I was at rest. If I take the watch off my wrist for a minute and then put it back on my wrist, the heart rate measurement works as it should again. In my opinion, the sensor sucks twice the number of heartbeats, for whatever reason. but with such an expensive watch, many things must work much better. in some display fields, the colored rings are not displayed correctly. Cut off far too far to the left, not everything is visible. for more than 700 € point, I ask myself, what makes Garmin better? all questions about when will some of the bugs mentioned today be fixed will only be answered with this, there will be another update by the end of this year. My question is, does it take Garmin that long for something to happen? Again I’m actually super happy with zu unto, I never want to switch to Garmin. because the aesthetics the look of the so under watches is uniquely beautiful. the Nordic and Finnish design is impressive across the board. The fact that the watch has been tested according to a military standard and has this award also speaks for itself. nevertheless I would like to ask you to solve some problems as soon as possible. e.g. an HRV measurement is completely missing with soundto.
e)
please don’t understand me Wrong, the watch is super cool, super. Great, looks great. But the heart rate sensor should be the same as in the previous Fall 99pro models. The heart rate sensor on the vertical is still in such a way that it delivers measurement results that are far too high for no reason at rest. As previously described heart rate of 155 at rest. Put on a new watch and the heart rate is 67, exactly, measured it myself with my hand. There is no explanation for this. Mainly because I have personally experienced with the new Peek and the new picpro that the same heart rate sensor does a great job. I can’t understand why the Pro model of all things makes such vertical errors.
If it doesn't challenge you, it doesn't change you. #lifewithasthma #runwithasthma #nevergiveup #pushinglimits #adventurestartshere SUUNTO 9 Peak, Vertical Ti, Race , Race s, SA (Beta) Android🏃🏼🧗⛷️🚵
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@altcmd said in To Suunto or not to Suunto:
- are people really unhappy using the SV?
I absolutely love the SV. When I first got it, I was slightly annoyed being asked to calibrate the compass every time I wanted to use maps, but it was a minor thing overall. I’ve only really used maps once, though I check it regularly just for fun. And I haven’t had any crashes or issues with it at all (only had one crash/failure ever on any Suunto watch (a 5 Peak), and Suunto sent me a new one as replacement). Tracking accuracy is beyond expectations. So perfect!
I liked the 9 Peak and 9PP, but they were too small for me, and SV is finally a true replacement for my beloved 9 Baro, which I got after ditching Garmin.
@altcmd said in To Suunto or not to Suunto:
- is the pricing too high?
I dont think it is for the SV, but I believe there is a wide perception it’s too high. I’m happy the other devices have been reduced in price – definitely makes them more competitive in the marketplace. I think even a $50 drop on the SV would do a lot for boosting market share.
@altcmd said in To Suunto or not to Suunto:
- do people really not value Suunto any more?
Everyone values brands in their own way, so I’m not sure any one person here can speak for “people.” When I personally look for watches or make recommendations, Suunto and Coros are consistently highest on my list, so I value them quite a bit.
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@GiPFELKiND said in To Suunto or not to Suunto:
My question is, does it take Garmin that long for something to happen?
Garmin now at the very least release a quarterly update. Depending on the watch, what new features there are, and or what bug fixes there are depends on how big a release it is. For example my Epix 2 is about 18 months old now and is receiving a massive update that not only includes bug fixes but a host of new features that includes the new hill score and endurance metrics, the new weather chart map overlays, i.e… all the features that came out with the Pro series, but Pro and non pro series are also getting new updates that includes all the improvements that the Garmin Approach S70 launched with and a couple of completely new features; a back up & restore system (finally) - and yes a host of bug fixes.
ifs a critical bug fix then garmin usually patch within a couple of days. If its a big/reasonably material bug fix it may get an inbetween update (i.e. last quarter official version - had 3 updates to fix critical / material bugs that weren’t picked up in the beta testing); otherwise its every 3 months for the bugs they do intend to fix. Note that small immaterial bugs may take a couple of years to fix or in some cases if it barely impacts anyone may never get fixed (all companies have limited resources).
I think it terms of bugs that are irregular / immaterial (except for a small percentage) never do get fixed by any company and would include apple in that too - that is just life.Sometime garmn rather than just fixing a bug will replace the unit - which somehow often seems to resolve the bug issue - suspect it may be corrupted updates that need a factory wipe and full restore to resolve (while on the watch you can do a factory restore I suspect it doesn’t completely wipe everything off the watch included all software - what I supsect does occur to garmin factory replacements).
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@altcmd I personally think you’re asking all the right questions. I also think your analysis in reference to Suunto’s resale value is correct…especially here in the US. I’ve seen new Suunto watches selling for 40,50,60% less than retail price. Some for even less depending on how desperate the seller is. I’ve only seen a few (literally a few) Suunto Verticals for sale which is extremely disappointing because I was certain that I’d be able to get one second hand for way less than retail price, but I’m just not seeing them…at all. And I don’t think it’s because athletes love them so much that they’re not selling them. I think it’s because they’re not buying them and therefore they don’t have one to sell.
Also please keep in mind that while your questions are valid, you’re not going to get a straight forward and completely honest answer since the majority of participants on this forum are committed to Suunto for better or for worse. You’re just going to have to commit to your purchase and choose to be happy with it without worrying about the need to sell it if there’s something you don’t like. Most of these devices do the same things. The question is which brand is the most reliable. I’d say Garmin. But that’s just been my experience. I’ve never had any of the problems with my Fenix 6 as I’ve had with my Suunto 9. But remember this is a Suunto Forum, so expect to be told otherwise.
With all that said I think the Suunto Vertical may be a good device. However I refuse to pay full price for it as I think it’s too risky. I think I’ll stumble across one eventually for a price that’s acceptable for a Suunto product. And if it is good it may change my perception of the company in reference to reliability. I truly hope that’s the case since my Suunto 9 was awesome until they added the recent updates. Now I don’t even bother to use it since I have no clue if it’ll work or not.
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@TyreseJ4 said in To Suunto or not to Suunto:
@altcmd I personally think you’re asking all the right questions. I also think your analysis in reference to Suunto’s resale value is correct…especially here in the US. I’ve seen new Suunto watches selling for 40,50,60% less than retail price. Some for even less depending on how desperate the seller is. I’ve only seen a few (literally a few) Suunto Verticals for sale which is extremely disappointing because I was certain that I’d be able to get one second hand for way less than retail price, but I’m just not seeing them…at all. And I don’t think it’s because athletes love them so much that they’re not selling them. I think it’s because they’re not buying them and therefore they don’t have one to sell.
Also please keep in mind that while your questions are valid, you’re not going to get a straight forward and completely honest answer since the majority of participants on this forum are committed to Suunto for better or for worse. You’re just going to have to commit to your purchase and choose to be happy with it without worrying about the need to sell it if there’s something you don’t like. Most of these devices do the same things. The question is which brand is the most reliable. I’d say Garmin. But that’s just been my experience. I’ve never had any of the problems with my Fenix 6 as I’ve had with my Suunto 9. But remember this is a Suunto Forum, so expect to be told otherwise.
With all that said I think the Suunto Vertical may be a good device. However I refuse to pay full price. I think it’s too risky. I think I’ll stumble across one eventually for a price that’s acceptable to me.
Great answer, I approve.
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@altcmd For me the winning point for Suunto is the app. I have a Garmin GPS which I use for its inReach and as a navigation device. It was my primary navigation device with my Suunto 9 Baro but now it’s relegated to backup navigation device since I got the Vertical.
Now granted it may be different for Garmin watches, but I find the Garmin GPS application ‘suite’ to be far too numerous and complex.
With the Suunto, I can track activities, plot routes, sync, download maps, additional apps and everything else, all in one place.
With the Garmin, I need to use mapinstall to install maps, Explore on my phone or Basecamp on my laptop to create routes, and then I need to decide if I want to use ‘tracks’ or ‘routes’. I need to open ConnectIQ for companion apps, and Connect for other stuff.
Garmin just makes it far too complicated.
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@TyreseJ4 said in To Suunto or not to Suunto:
@altcmd I personally think you’re asking all the right questions. I also think your analysis in reference to Suunto’s resale value is correct…especially here in the US. I’ve seen new Suunto watches selling for 40,50,60% less than retail price. Some for even less depending on how desperate the seller is. I’ve only seen a few (literally a few) Suunto Verticals for sale which is extremely disappointing because I was certain that I’d be able to get one second hand for way less than retail price, but I’m just not seeing them…at all. And I don’t think it’s because athletes love them so much that they’re not selling them. I think it’s because they’re not buying them and therefore they don’t have one to sell.
I don’t know where are you based but in Vinted (Europe) or leboncoin (france) there have been a couple of verticals for sale as new, some with crazy prices (less than 600 for a solar, with invoice).
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@André-Faria I have seen the same in other parts of Europe too (classifieds).
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@arpoodle
might be very different for the inreach - but for Garmin watches its a bit more simplistic than that.The connect app is your connectivity app, health app, fitness (tracks), training app and includes workout creation, and also the ability to track your gear and can create and sync all your routes from there too. unless you want 3rd party apps or watch faces there which is the Connect IQ app there is really no need to go anywhere else.
Saying that there is the odd wierd thing that really never got set up in the app so you need to resort to the web for that (i.e. swimming laps - on the app it only shows intervals yet for all other activities you can see explode out intervals into laps - but for some reason not Swimming - can only see individual laps on the web).
Waypoint sync to watch (if not using watch to create waypoint) is garmin explore - but other than that there is really no need to go elsewhere - however Garmin does enable you to the make the choice if you don’t want to use their resources and in most case is reasonably flexible on it).
You can even download and update your regional maps without having to resort to Garmin Express PC/Mac app - though due to their size its often just more practical to do that via the PC/MAC (pushing 12GB through the watch wifi can take a while). -
I think best era of Suunto was when Ambit 1/2/3 was on market. Now i know multiple people with Garmin and Suunto. It think people have less issues or shortcomings with Garmin.
I never had different sports watch than Suunto. I really like it is European brand, i like design a lot. I like user interface of watch. I like how route planing works.
I don’t like that suunto abandoned movescount. I don’t like WHR accuracy. I don’t like problematic GPS accuracy when openwater swimming. I don’t like how charging on my wifes S5P works. I don’t like need of watch in range of bluetooth if i want to change sport modes in suunto app. I really hate that suunto changed backlight behavior of S5 with firmware update(removing toggle and dim backlight when dnd enabled), and there are some other dislikes.
I think there are lot of pros and cons of suunto watch. Since i don’t have any other brand watch myself, i am not able to judge quality or feature reliability because i didn’t try any other. Will i buy another Suuntoin future? I have my S5 just little over two years. I hope it will work for 2-3 next years. And than i will really think about it and read lot of reviews before i decide. I hope that suunto will provide in future many more reliable watches, still made in finlad, in same quality like Ambit watch was.
