Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?
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@Andrewx01 said in Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?:
For what it’s worth, switching to Suunto from Garmin, I was incredibly tempted to switch back. Why you may ask? (Follow me on this…)
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Garmin’s step counting is just leaps ahead of Suunto (it’s not really the technology, rather it’s just too sensitive per their all)
// At the time, I thought seeing a step counter, that for me was 98% accurate, was helping me stay active somehow. I realized that If I’m clocking 3-5 miles a day on runs, an hour at the gym, eating right, how important is it really that I see 10,000 steps on my watch? It’s not. -
Garmin’s health metrics. The sleep (when I go to sleep, wake up) were SPOT ON. It’s nice seeing how much I slept, even if I don’t care about sleep stages.
// First two days with the SV, it was WAY off when I went to sleep. I’m unsure what happened… but that third day, up to and including today, has been spot on, just like my Garmin. Again, since I don’t care for sleep stages, per se, the general picture of how long I’m sleeping is awesome. Not to mention… idk what magic Suunto is cooking, but I always wake up to ZERO steps… Garmin somehow can’t figure out how to turn steps off when the watch detects I’m sleeping… so I’d wake up to 50-200 lol. -
GPS accuracy. I was a bit shocked when my trail, race course, finished with 8.15 when I’ve always finished between 7.8-8.0mi (buddies finish about the same in their Coros, and 8.3 on their Apple Watch). I thought something may be wacky with the actual system being used to mark my track and distance.
// After some research, and speaking with y’all, I realized Garmin has a few things they do that are just different. Not necessarily for the better, or the worse, just different when it comes to SatIQ. That said, it’s been SPOT ON with road courses, and I’m never going to just give up if it’s within 2% margin of error. I’m sure it’ll be just fine on other trails.
-Calories burned estimation. While no watch is by any means super a accurate with this… Suunto is comically bad. I do not burn 1000 calories on a 45 min flat walk, in which I dont even break a sweat lol. Other units has estimated 100-200ish, which is much more realistic. It just bothered me… because if all this is taken into account for Suunto’s recovery, wellness alg, it’s surely not providing accurate information at a big scale.
// I then realized… wait, I don’t even care about calories from these devices, why am I getting my panties in a bunch over nothing? Again, sleep data, general heart rate trends (resting) and a place to track and log runs, workouts. That’s all I need.What Suunto has really made me understand, and let’s be honest…appreciate, is that I don’t need a watch full of gimmicks. I need a tool, reliable, GPS, and something that is durable. The fact that the Vertical is a gorgeous watch is just a bonus. Personally, I much prefer the layout of the Suunto app.
Is one watch going to ever be “perfect” probably not. You just have to be realistic about your needs, and find the best fit you for.
I guess that’s my unwanted take haha. Sorry
Thanks dude, for sharing your experience with vertical.
Seriously, I never had Garmin watch in my life before vertical, and vertical gives me the envie to get a Garmin and damn they are doing well.
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For starters, thanks @Andrewx01 for the balance, and I think the items in the negative column we are all hoping to be smoothed out in the next Suunto firmware update. I know Garmin is constantly fixing things too, and Suunto is a bit younger than the Fenix 7 so needs some time catch up.
@zhang965 said in Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?:
Seriously, I never had Garmin watch in my life before vertical, and vertical gives me the envie to get a Garmin and damn they are doing well.
Just curious, out of the posters review, he had for Garmin on step counting, a bit better on sleep metrics but his 3rd day with Suunto was ‘spot on’ and Garmin was counting steps in his sleep, and on GPS ‘Garmin has a few things different…not necessarily better or worse…’, , and said “I need a tool, reliable, GPS, and something that is durable. The fact that the Vertical is a gorgeous watch is just a bonus. Personally, I much prefer the layout of the Suunto app” but @zhang965 you seem to take away that, based on his post ‘the vertical gives me the envie to get a Garmin…’(?)
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@Andrewx01 somehow I have the exact feeling as you, in terms of GPS accuracy and the sleep tracking part which Garmin seems to be more accurate. I am using my 965 as my main watch now and thinking of letting my Vertical go.
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@BrunoH well said. I use both Garmins and Suuntos, but my Baro is my favourite by far. No, it’s not perfect, it’s outdated now, and isn’t loaded with features. But it’s rock solid in so many areas and the quality build is just nuts compared to my Garmins. To me my Baro will be with me for a long time to come. I feel an attachment to it. The Garmins are great but they’re just means to an end. There’s a difference.
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@Andrewx01 I was and continue to be (and hopefully remain) ‘All In’ Suunto boy. And the Vertical was and is a damn great looking device. However, I have been plagued with crashes mid activity with the old device and out of the activity with the new that I have now placed in my drawer turned off. Its a pitty really, I am hardly waiting to test it with the new FW but if I get another crash I guess its a sad goodbye by me. I mean all have errors and gimmics especially if you offer so many metrics (Garmin). But none of the other watches I had or tested have crashed mid activity or crashed at all. (The F6x once got stuck with some weird screen shadows and was repalced in less than a week). I think that the App / Backend dev teams are doing one hell of a job and the Suunto ecosystem is the best looking and modern out there but the embedded SW is not being shown the same love. I do know embedded is much more tricky than the others but still Suunto sells watches not services.
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@Hristijan-Petreski A causa dei miei frequenti arresti anomali durante l’attività sportiva ho deciso di spedirlo in assistenza, Dopo 10 giorni l’assistenza mi risponde che l’orologio dopo vari test è perfettamente funzionante…L’unica speranza è che esca presto un nuovo aggiornamento firmware… E’ davvero frustante ciò, anche perchè ho abbandonato il mio affidabilissimo S9 B per il meraviglioso SV.
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@Andrew_ Lol here’s another post that refers to features that Garmin has to offer as “gimmicks.” Without saying whether or not if I agree, it’s just funny because 6 months to a year from now Suunto will find a way to incorporate those same “gimmicks” into their devices. However they’ll no longer be gimmicks…they’ll suddenly be the best thing ever.
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@TyreseJ4 said in Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?:
@Andrew_ Lol here’s another post that refers to features that Garmin has to offer as “gimmicks.” Without saying whether or not if I agree, it’s just funny because 6 months to a year from now Suunto will find a way to incorporate those same “gimmicks” into their devices. However they’ll no longer be gimmicks…they’ll suddenly be the best thing ever.
No,
all garmin features are gimmicks, because the G from garmin meaning gimmicks,
Suunto has no G.
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@TyreseJ4 that is because the way Garmin does it, is they generate some data, but the algorithm behind it is cumbersome and thus those things are gimmicks.
When Suunto does it, they do it right and scientifically backed. They then make it useful. HRV has been discussed - you will see other useful features soon
t6, S6, Elementum Terra, Ambit 3 Sapphire, Spartan Ultra Copper, Traverse Alpha, S7 Graphite LE, S9B Ambassador, S9P Granite Blue Titanium, S9PP Titanium Sand, Vertical All Black, Race Titanium Charcoal, Race S All Black, Race S Titanium Canary
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A gimmick isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s all about perception.
If you find a featured useful, good on you, that doesn’t mean it’s good for everyone. Garmin attempts to deliver a plethora of features, some that are truly meaningless, others that are incredibly beneficial. I agree, there are many features I do wish Suunto had that Garmin has that I would still consider a gimmick lol.
Body battery, to me, is useless. Just like resources, to me, is useless. Listen to your body.
I previously believed that HRV / Stress were hit or miss, but I swear by the fact that a Garmin can detect when you’re getting sick before you can.
So, while I’m sure some write off Garmin, while using the term gimmick as a demeaning term, my point was that I don’t need 90% of what they offer. Why? Because those features are gimmicks that don’t help with my training.
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@Egika and steps, spo2, resources, sleep? I know there is update coming, but those are gimmicks for couple of years already. Also music, let’s se if new Suunto watch will have music. As far as I remember this is not the feature for target audience… I’m big Suunto fan, but you have to be realistic and not a fanboy, sorry.
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Egika said in Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?:
@TyreseJ4 that is because the way Garmin does it, is they generate some data, but the algorithm behind it is cumbersome and thus those things are gimmicks.
When Suunto does it, they do it right and scientifically backed. They then make it useful. HRV has been discussed - you will see other useful features soon
Winners Wear Winners
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G from garmin is gimmicks
S from Suunto is scientific -
@zhang965 it is so scientific that it can’t record the swim laps correctly…
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and does not detect the type of swim
will see next update -
In meantime, Suunto’s trained computer scientist is working on improvement gps tracker for running on 16mins/km
Winners Wear Winners
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@Egika right so basically you are implying that the rest of the market has it all wrong and should take Suunto’s lead. Quite a heavy dose of implicit bias right there! So to be scientific, Suunto is happy to generate €35+ million in loss in 2022.
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@altcmd said in Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?:
Egika right so basically you are implying that the rest of the market has it all wrong and should take Suunto’s lead. Quite a heavy dose of implicit bias right there! So to be scientific, Suunto is happy to generate €35+ million in loss in 2022.
Wow that’s a lot of added value.
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@zhang965 ouch!
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@Egika
and that is why Suunto leverage the same underlying algorithms as they want gimmicks too…
Guess you have never read the white papers hence comment that they have no underlying scientific basis. Sure I am sure some haven’t but the vast majority do when you go through the whitepaper.
Guess you haven’t seen the +500 scientific studies that they are currently taking part in.
And what was a really interesting when reading the article was about how scientific the brands are getting - I remember the article discussing how Garmin, Whoop and Oura - funny I don’t remember anything about Suunto…and how heavily underlined their metrics are in science and how much research they are doing to underline the metrics and to help other sections withing the medical health and fitness professions.
Sure some things are gimmicks - take SPO2 - massive gimmick. You can even take ECG and consider that a massive gimmick on smartwatches as 1 lead vs 12 leads so cannot pick up host of conditions - yet despite that sometimes those gimmicks are useful to some people.
And sure a feature like climbpro sounds like an absolute gimmick - until you use it and find out just how useful it can be.
