Race vs Garmin Epix Pro
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@David-Lown All good. Out of all the points I made your list is actually not that big.
My unit could be defective then, because the gesture display is slow no matter how I look at it. I use AOD, perhaps that makes it slower, but if that’s the case…Epix is fast no matter what mode it’s in. My fiance has the Forerunner 965 which is right in the cost ballpark of the Race, and its gesture works fine too.
So when you go into for example, any of the sleep, pulse OX, etc widgets (or whatever they’re called) and you swipe back to the list of them, it’s not laggy? Mine stutters before it loads the rest of the list. Then scrolling with the touch screen stutters a LOT. Not in the menus, in the widget list. That’s why I said it’s inconsistent. And using the crown to scroll, while fast, it’s not smooth at all. We probably have different expectations for how software should perform.
My update was not 6min, I timed it in a way, as I excitedly messaged my fiance that I’m starting the update at 15:20 shortly after I got the watch delivered, and I finally finished updating by 16:15 and downloading the 1 section of BC by 5pm. That is just ridiculous of a long wait. I’ve been spoiled by Garmin no doubt.
It is definitely comfortable. Except, when I took it off today I realized the lugs dug into my wrist leaving a red irritated patch of skin, which I’ve never gotten from my Epix since its lugs don’t point down as much. I’ve seen others on here with similar issues with the Vertical. The Race is not the same size as the 47mm Epix, as it’s 49mm in diameter. Halfway between the two Epix sizes. I don’t have huge wrists, they’re 180cm. The display is great yea, but Suunto could use it better. Lots of OK screens that go bright green for no reason. I do like the way the Suunto OS looks, but there is too much not up to par.
Also, regarding price. The Race in Canada is $839. The Epix Pro 51mm is $1658 (tax incl.). It’s half the price, not 2/5ths. I got a nice 40% discount on the Epix due to insurance, which was not an option with Suunto.
I’ll just return it as the first comment suggested. The fact the the physical device construction is misaligned doesn’t help. I’ll keep the Suunto App installed in case they release a competitive product in the future. It’s a really great app, so kudos to Suunto for that.
Oh one last thing, the fact that TrainingPeaks is a partner but you have to pay $20 per month… then I’d rather stick with Garmin with their coaches and suggested training that is included in the cost, makes a difference over a couple years.
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@Shuhite
- I’ve got no back panel misalignment. There should be no ridge between the different parts of the watch. If you can provide a photo it’d be interesting to understand if you’ve got a faulty unit.
- The look of the watch and if you like it is a personal thing, I think Garmin watches, with their geeky clunky look are non wearable outside a sport activity. The Race feels and looks like a next generation watch, like the new Polar Vantage v3. Garmin watches are the same since… ever?
- The first firmware update is long, but it took me about 30 minutes. Were you expecting to open the watch and go running immediately?
- Map download could surely be faster, but it took me about 10 minutes to download the entire region of Italy where I live while I was first charging the watch.
- The lag is there if you frantically move between widgets like the watch is an iPhone. It doesn’t stutter or lag during the sport activity, that is where it counts the most.
- Map rotation the get the proper orientation while running or hiking is so much better than Garmin it’s embarassing. The compass is much more reponsive in the Race than in the Fenix I’ve tried recently.
- Once you sync the watch with the app it takes me less than 30 seconds to get the first GPS fix when I go outside.
- Screen activation when tilting could be faster, but why would you tilt your wrist more than once in a few seconds? Is that a realistic usage scenario while you run or hike?
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@Shuhite might just be a dodgy unit then - I am really pleased bar the few minor points I have. Price for the SR in the UK is £389 (£479 for titanium) v £929 for the Epix Pro 51 (£999 for the sapphire) so it’s definitely considerably cheaper.
I used to use Suunto all the time but they took so long to get OHR that I went to Garmin. Now I’m back with this watch and it just seems a lot nicer than the Epix and Fenix (had the 6X). Additionally, the SR actually slides under my shirt cuffs which is a bonus!
It’s definitely less customisable than any Garmin but I’m hoping with the SR we have a bigger cohort to attract more widgets to help out.
Ps, the Epix Pro is actually a really good watch. GPS track around Chicago marathon a few weeks again was near perfect - on issue I could see on the maps was under the first skyscraper at the start.
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@General_Witt Thanks for your response.
I agree there should be no ridge. Even looking side on at the watch, I can see a gap between the back plate and the plastic. It’s ridiculous.
The look is personal, I’ve gotten many compliments on my Epix. I agree Garmin is like VW, they barely change their signature look. It works for those that like that. It also means you can sell Garmins for quite high amounts second hand, like I did with my Fenix 6 and 7. The Race is a beautiful and classy looking watch yes, until I saw the misalignment. Even though it’s not visible to others, it ruins my experience.
I expected to update and go running within 30 min yes, like I could when I got my Garmin, even when I tried Samsung GW6, it was faster at setting up (but it’s a terrible watch for sports…).
Sadly Canada is massive, so even the ‘small’ regional maps are huge.
If I want to get to the last widget in the list, I’m not going to slowly scroll just so it appears not to be laggy? That’s ridiculous to say. And anyway like I said in the previous post, the stutter while going back to the previous display is not something I can do slowly to pretend it’s not laggy. Maybe for a Suunto it’s not laggy, but compared to Garmin it sure is (unless the Epix is in Redshift mode, then it’s laggy like the Race is). Garmin isn’t perfect at all, but they get a lot of things right.
Yes, during sport activities it’s fine. Except, I can’t go back to the watch face or check any other watch function while in an activity. I feel very confined, meanwhile with Garmin you can leave an activity running in the background. And still no lag.
The map rotation is great yea, but then the maps have no details about your surroundings. Garmins maps has parking, trails names, hotels etc, most of it I don’t care for, but trail names are incredibly useful when hiking in areas with a multitude of overlapping trails. I don’t ever use the compass so it’s not an important feature. When I do check it, the Epix one looks perfectly fine.
As can be expected after updating and downloading maps, the watch was synced with the app multiple times. I went for a couple days of walks/runs and every time it took that long to connect to MULTIBAND. 30 s is unacceptable when my Epix connects to multiband within 5 seconds and GPS within 10, and then even when the RACE connected (I waited for the GPS icon to go solid before I started walking), it started WAY off from where I was, while the EPIX connected to GPS almost immediately, so I pressed start, and it started exactly where I was standing, check the screenshot of the two activities. The Epix then wandered a bit while I waited for the Race to find a GPS connection. After this initial meander of the Race, it was a good track, but not better than the GPS only mode on the Epix. This was in Best Performance mode btw.
And here are some pictures of the case. Sorry, it’s hard to take closeups with my phone, it’s doesn’t have a macro mode. You can see from the shade on the logo how the back overhangs or whatever it’s called. There’s a ridge on this side and not on the other.
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@David-Lown I’m glad it works for you. I can’t really justify leaving Garmin at this point. The Suunto oHR is so many generations behind it’s kinda weird. It’s more basic than my first Instinct I had in 2019. The accuracy in my couple runs and walks were acceptable though, so kudos to them for making it work well enough despite its apparent age.
The 51mm Epix definitely gets caught in cuffs haha, especially noticeable with the fall weather we are starting to have now. I really wanted to like the Race, like I said I’ve been yearning to give Suunto a shot for years.
I can’t complain about anything with the Epix Pro, it really is just that good. Its GPS only tracks are surprisingly good, and using Sat-IQ is next level.
I’m working up from half marathon to full marathon for the BMO next year in Vancouver. Will be my first run over 30km!
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@Shuhite send that sucker back and get a refund. I think for your use case I suspect you’ll be unsatisfied with this purchase long-term.
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@Shuhite while I don’t necessarily disagree with your points, I think it’s important to understand that it’s very easy to use the Garmin as a benchmark at face value for the completeness of its features, and pit all other competitors against it only to realize and then lament their shortcomings. Clearly, with Garmin’s resources, it can be miles ahead of the game, depending on how you see it. So, if you’re happy and it works well for you, that’s great - just stick with it.
But if you do decide to try out one of the competitors, in your case Suunto, I would encourage you test drive it for a week or two, track some more activities, and see beyond the specsheet if certain aspects might in fact be better implemented and gauge how well or important those aspects are for you. I can’t guarantee you’ll fall in love, but who knows, you might end up becoming one of the very enthusiastic members on these forums.
P.S. if you believe you’ve received a faulty device, you should always try to get it returned or replaced.
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@Shuhite
- Your unit is faulty 100%. I have no gap, not even a mini gap, between the layers of the watch.
- Unfortunately “day 1 patch” with a big firmware upgrade is becoming more and more frequent with tech products of every type.
- I can suggest you turn the widgets that you don’t use off. I just have those that I use active, so that if I have to get to the last widget in the list i just have to scroll a bunch of them. Some widgets, like control panel, are totally useless, you can reach the control panel by short pressing the lower button already.
- there should be the possibility to run the activity in the background. It’s an old issue and request by buyers of Suunto.
- I get mixed results with the gps accuracy in urban areas, but never inaccurate as the one in your photo. The GPS accuracy overall works great for me and catches very intricate trails with a lot of close bends on the side of the mountain. When I had the Suunto 9 Baro the gps trace was all over the place, while the Race has been very accurate so far.
I suspect your unit is badly built and maybe it is affecting the gps antenna and gps accuracy overall.
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@Jonathan-C I had a sour experience today on the Garmin Forums. I made a post asking if anyone thought that Garmin could improve the Multiband GPS battery life, since the Race is 40, the new Polar Vantage is expected to be around 53 hrs, and the Garmin Epix Pro 51mm which has by far more battery life in standby (31 days, or 11 days if AOD, with HR tracking etc on), gets only 38 hrs (and an even worse 30 hrs when the display is always on).
I immediately got attacked by some of the OGs there and was interrogated about where Suunto states the 40 hrs is for multiband, and that it’s for GPS only, etc. I found a support article regarding the SV GPS/battery modes, and it mentions in a note at the bottom it’s for the new multiband watches so it applies to the Race too imo. They didn’t believe me and kept insisting that article only applies to the Vertical…and the one guy who acts like a moderator downvoted all my replies.
I think I even got deleted or banned from the forums because since then I can’t log in or see my old posts, despite being in the beta program for Garmin for the last couple years. So yea, not so nice feeling.
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@Shuhite said in Race vs Garmin Epix Pro:
I immediately got attacked by some of the OGs there and was interrogated about where Suunto states the 40 hrs is for multiband, and that it’s for GPS only, etc.
As far as the “where,” that’s referenced on the Suunto website, even if the listing makes an assumption that the user knows the four settings Suunto uses on its newest watches (which is almost certainly in the manual, but I havent looked specifically):
Pleae correct me if I’m wrong, but the first value is Performance, which is top-tier multiband at one-second intervals. The second is Endurance, which is all-systems GNSS at one second (this setting is equivalent to the best setting on the 9 Peak Pro). Then you have Ultra, which is all-systems at one second but at 50% power. Then there’s Tour, which is going to be longer intervals (like one or two minutes) between pings.
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@TrailEyes Yea you’re correct, I found that in the guide for the Vertical. Can’t find it for the Race yet, but they are similar watches. But these people wouldn’t believe me. Makes me want to just get rid of Garmin, even though it’s nothing to do with Garmin.
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Both are fantastic watches and in my opinion represent both companies at the top of their respective games. I own both along with Apple Watch Ultra 2. What I really like about Suunto right now is they have released 2 watches (Vertical & Race) which give them plenty of room to grow into next generations of watches. I think they are few tweaks away (new hr sensor and continue to get the processors a little snappier). Their app is hands down more enjoyable than any other plaform I use. Their designs are class leading and have such a premium look compared to…well everyone except Apple! Garmin is going to be tough to beat long term and not even sure that should be anyone’s goal short or long-term. The one thing keeping me with Garmin is golf features. Suunto has pretty much caught up with everything I care about on the fitness side which is outdoor running (Best in class GPS or at least tied with Garmin) and the seamless integration with Training Peaks. Only reason I keep Apple Watch is for a phone on my long runs.
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@Shuhite Sorry this happened to you and I can confirm the Race is 40h multiband and far, far better battery than the 47mm Epix2 Pro, which is the correct comparison. The two companies approach features very differently. I test drove an Epix2 for 8 months and it wasn’t for me. I do agree the OHR on the Race could be improved but I’ll use a belt no matter what. No watch I’ve tried has good enough OHR including Apple.
Folks shouldn’t be so insecure and you are welcome here even without a Suunto watch. After all, it is a watch, more important you enjoy life, exercise and the outdoors.
Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing
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@Shuhite said in Race vs Garmin Epix Pro:
I immediately got attacked by some of the OGs there and was interrogated about where Suunto states the 40 hrs is for multiband, and that it’s for GPS only, etc.
Actually the community features Suunto offers in the app (following other people’s adventures) and in this forum here, are one reason for me preferring Suunto over all other brands. I find it motivating and enjoyable to see what other people do outdoors (and indoors
) and I learned so much here, making my own experiences much more enjoyable. I would still run with much too high heartrate chasing some unrealistic pace, and not really enjoy the running itself, if there wasn’t people in this forum who advised beginners to start slow, walk if needed and emphasised to look „how it feels“ and not so much what your metrics are. And for me that changed the whole experience. -
@ChrisA said in Race vs Garmin Epix Pro:
@Shuhite said in Race vs Garmin Epix Pro:
I immediately got attacked by some of the OGs there and was interrogated about where Suunto states the 40 hrs is for multiband, and that it’s for GPS only, etc.
Actually the community features Suunto offers in the app (following other people’s adventures) and in this forum here, are one reason for me preferring Suunto over all other brands. I find it motivating and enjoyable to see what other people do outdoors (and indoors
) and I learned so much here, making my own experiences much more enjoyable. I would still run with much too high heartrate chasing some unrealistic pace, and not really enjoy the running itself, if there wasn’t people in this forum who advised beginners to start slow, walk if needed and emphasised to look „how it feels“ and not so much what your metrics are. And for me that changed the whole experience.
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Brad_Olwin said in Race vs Garmin Epix Pro:
I test drove an Epix2 for 8 months and it wasn’t for me.
It looks like someone cannot recognize its watch, again…
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@zhang965 said in Race vs Garmin Epix Pro:
It looks like someone cannot recognize its watch, again…
Seriously man, …
S9PP
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@zhang965 muted for 30 days for systematic trolling and inappropriate behavior towards other forum users. Next time it will be half a year
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@pavel-samokha I honestly don’t get it. Time is the one asset I have that I can’t get more of. If I buy a product or service and am unhappy with it, I don’t buy it again. Cut my losses and move on. Complaining about it rarely (if ever) solves anything and just is a waste of my time.
Why I choose Suunto is why I buy most electronics
- build quality
- battery life
- future proofing
One thing that I always thought was cool about Suunto over the competition is that they will pass along updates/features as long as the hardware supports it. The same cannot be said about the competition. The forums have been a great asset to me to answer questions and resolve issues (yourself included; thank you very much!)
The trolling just reminds me of the girl that got stood up at the dance and wants to take anger out on anyone in her path. With that attitude you won’t get invited next time!
Seriously thank you to yourself and all the forum members that make this a great place. It is a platform that is full of great resources/information and makes it easier to get the most out of our products.
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@Shuhite
Not sure why they don’t get longer battery life than 38hrs (aod off / 30hrs AOD on) - doubt they can get anymore in multi-band as with all the garmins, suunto, polar etc I have seen I only ever seen an increase in gps battery life once - and that was the Suunto 7 - but not a true increase as was changing gps fix from every second to every 10s.
With Race training modes: Training mode with GPS 40h / 50h / 70h / 120h - what happens with each mode to adjust out the battery life. Also is that 40h with AOD on or off - no mention, cause if its with AOD off then 40h isn’t much different to 38hrs?
Cause with Epix its (all AOD off wrist gesture on) its 38hrs multi, 62hrs all systems, GPS only 82hrs before you start hitting the ultra trac 125hrs or expedition modes which can extend gps time out to 27days. Of course all this battery life is based on standard settings i.e. bluetooth on, HR continuous every second etc (mention that due to how apple ultra watch extended modes work - no idea if suunto extended modes the same) - as can adjust some of those settings and extend battery life even more.
Re forum issues - sorry to hear about that - its just wrong, but are you sure it was the Garmin Epix forum https://forums.garmin.com/outdoor-recreation/outdoor-recreation/f/epix-2
as I don’t remember that post and its super unusual for anyone to be banned there. At the most they might just lock the thread - but not for someting like that. And sure like every forum there is the odd muppet, but usually its pretty friendly and Chris the garmin employee/mod is usually super solid.
Are you maybe thinking about the Garmin Reddit - as that wouldn’t surprise me as those mods are complete and utter muppets (been banned numerous times for nothing).
If it is the Garmin reddit -try GarminWatches reddit - much more friendly and where I lurk - given up on the muppets on the Garmin Reddit (mods are supposedly gamrin employees but serioulsly doubt it the way they behave); or the actual Garmin Epix forum.
