HRV on Vertical

[A Former User]

@surfboomerang said in HRV on Vertical:

Do you have to enable “Daily HR”

yep, needed

[surfboomerang]

@robis Then I guess the desciption in SA needs to change:

“How to measure my HRV?
Suunto measures HRV during sleep. To obtain HRV data, you should wear your watch while sleeping and ensure that sleep tracking is enabled on the device.
During the sleep period, heart rate variability is measured continuously…”

Also when enabling the HRV tracking option there is no warning to enable Daily HR as well.

[mikekoski490]

Interesting. My Suunto HRV score this morning was 16ms. The HRV app was 50ms.

However, both show the same trend.

So, I think Suunto score is wrong for me as a 16ms HRV score would normally be pretty bad, but the trend is matching the readiness score of the HRV app.

[herlas]

@mikekoski490 in my case I have the Oura ring too and it measures from 1 to 4 ms more than my vertical OHR, I’m not sure you can have two different devices giving the same numbers for HRV, algorithms are not the same, and neither the place on our hand where we take the measurements. The crazy difference you get on your Suunto watch is pretty weird.

Example from last night Oura 74 ms, my vertical 71 ms.

[Swaddy61]

@mikekoski490 Seems we are in similar positions! My SV figure for last night was 20ms, my Elite HRV was 48ms. Both higher than yesterday, so yes. It seems there is a bit if an offset, but trends are similar. I do wish the SV was more in line with Elite…

@herlas If the difference was small (and with the same trends) I would also be happy, but the difference is very big…

[pilleus]

@mikekoski490 said in HRV on Vertical:

My Suunto HRV score this morning was 16ms. The HRV app was 50ms.

I use for testing the Android app “Sleep as android” and a Polar Verity Sense for capturing the heart rate.

The result is 51 ms regarding all the captured values of the night. But regarding the low values in the deep sleep phases, where the heart is running free without disturbing influences or movements, the result is 29 ms.

So there are different results within one app and with the same data.

We may ask Suunto, what kind of calculation is the base of the hrv shown on the Vertical …

[mikekoski490]

@herlas Just as @Swaddy61 mentioned, a small difference can be accepted as +/- margins of error.

Your score is 74ms vs 71ms. Totally acceptable variance, and both scores are within a healthy range for HRV.

Mine is a score of 16ms vs 50ms. Im no scientist but I dont think that’s an OK variance. Not only a difference of 34ms, BUT the low score, according to online resources, would indicate catastrophic health trend lol.

[A Former User]

We need to keep in mind that there are different types of HRV metrics, for example one app can measure rMSSD HRV, other a different metric. And the values are different based on that. So if one App measures 50 and other 20, it can be still correct. So we would need to know the type of metric Suunto measures to be able to compare. At least that’s what I think. Maybe I am wrong.

[Swaddy61]

@tomasbartko In principle I agree. I think the challenge is that some people appear to be having near normal readings - it would be interesting, perhaps, for those people to do a comparison using the Elite App, to see if there HRV is even higher on there!

Last night my SV gave me an HRV score of 30 (the highest I have seen in the short time I have had the SV), and Elite gave me 61, the highest since I have been tracking on Elite too. So again, there seems to be linearity between the two, just with a big offset. I’ll track both for the next weeks, and if the linearity continues, I will at least be able to trust the SV figures as guidance for my training, rather than as an absolute figure.

[A Former User]

@Swaddy61 yes I see similar numbers in SV and Elite HRV, if one goes up, other goes linearly up as well. And vice versa. I think it’s an interesting idea to know what would others with high readings with Vertical measure in other apps.

[Todd Danielczyk]

@Swaddy61 I am one of the fortunate ones where my HRV seems to track well along with my sleep. Everything seemed to track better once I adjusted my resting heart rate up by 7 points (stock 60 bpm moved to 67 bpm)

I started tracking HRV right after the update to get my 14 day baseline and then I got slammed at work which also affected my sleep pattern. It tracked all of this.

This week I got back on schedule but had a late night dinner with drinks on Wednesday and sure enough, it shows up. By no means am I am athlete but I’m a relatively active 46 year old so the numbers are in line with my age/ activity level

[Swaddy61]

@Todd-Danielczyk If you have a Polar H10 belt then it would be really interesting if you downloaded the (free!) Elite HRV App and took a reading for comparison.

[Todd Danielczyk]

@Swaddy61 thanks for the suggestion. I paired my strap with the app and just did a quick comparison and it looks about 20-30 pts higher than my Vertical does.

[Swaddy61]

@Todd-Danielczyk - Thanks for doing that. Your results would appear to be in line with Mikekoski490 and me, in that SV is 20 - 30 pts lower than Elite. I’ll track the linearity between the two for a week or so, and then hopefully will be able to trust the SV figures from a ‘trending’ point of view, rather than absolute.

As has been said before, if the SV values were ‘Absolute’ several of us would be in hospital by now!

[Todd Danielczyk]

@Swaddy61 I’ll join in on the days correlation (who doesn’t love science and statistics!) So I’ll keep a chest strap on the night stand.

I’ll do morning side by side comparisons to see if we can’t get a plot going but it seems to line up from what we are seeing. I’m more of a trend versus an absolute kind of guy so as long as it tracks I’m less concerned about the raw number (just so you know how I think )

[Brad_Olwin]

@Stefan-Kersting said in HRV on Vertical:

Yes a lot is individual. When skiing with my buddies they are laughing at me because of my high max HR. I am 47 and when pushing myself I can have a HR of 194 (measured with belt). I was litt worried about that because usually you calculate max HR = 220-age. And that does not work for me. I read something about that this formula is not up to date any more and so I was less worried about my HR. I think it is the same with the HRV.

Both max HR and HRV average will be determined more by genetics than by anything else. I am 66 and my max is near 180, when I was in my early 40s it was in the low 190s. I have friends much younger and faster than me that have max HR in the high 160s.

[Mads Hintz-Madsen]

@Todd-Danielczyk you cannot compare the absolute HRV numbers from Suunto and HRV Elite.

Suunto reports the HRV in milliseconds while the HRV Elite app reports a HRV score which has no unit. It is a score which is normalized to be between 0 and 100. They take the RMSSD measurement (in milliseconds) and apply the natural logarithm to this value and then do some normalization.

So you can only compare the trend between the Suunto measurement and the HRV Elite measurement just as you are suggesting. These values are apples and oranges

[Todd Danielczyk]

@Mads-Hintz-Madsen I agree 100%. For me the Vertical has been tracking well with my sleep and daily “feel”. I have been more than happy with the data I have gotten from it since the last firmware update. My sleep and HRV been reading very consistent to my daily life. Days I’ve been busy with work, dehydration, alcohol consumption and late nights have shown worse HRV. Regiment structure shows better HRV.

I think the little experiment we discussed is to show the variance between the two testing types so that we can put the “XYZ shows a way better number than my Vertical does”. If one method reads statistically higher on trend then the other we can say it makes sense.

For me the track is more important than the individual point. So far the Vertical is tracking very well for me.

[mikekoski490]

@Mads-Hintz-Madsen Thanks for this explanation. I also just found in the deep list of results graphs on Elite HRV one that shows rMDSS, which shows the same values as Suunto (and matches Suuntos explanation in SA)

You are right. HRV score and rMDSS are different values/scores but based on the same calculations/test, and its the trend we need to pay attention to.

Back to Suunto app!

[Swaddy61]

@mikekoski490 @Mads-Hintz-Madsen Agree 100%, and also about the Elite App. And I am also getting very close correlation between the Suunto HRV value and the Elite rMDSS, so I think we can now safely rely on the Suunto App trends as our guide.

Good work all!