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HRV sleep values vs HRM belt plus Elite HRV app

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  • M Offline
    mikekoski490 Bronze Member
    last edited by mikekoski490 12 Mar 2023, 19:42 3 Dec 2023, 19:37

    I was a bit concerned last few weeks with my SR overnight HRV scores. They kept reading 15 to 17. This typically would mean I’m in a state of constant stress, even though my other indicators (sleep score/resoureces/recovery /resting hrm 48/workout hr etc) are all good.

    I ‘feel’ I should be in the 50 to 60 range based on articles written on HRV. 15 would indicate serious illness or something.

    In doing some research, and since I use an HRM (Suunto but have a Polar h10 on the way) I found a review on an app that uses an HRM belt called Elite HRV, and the app pairs to your Bluetooth belt via your cellphone.

    Ive been using it paired with my HRM and values are, over a 24 hour period and 3 tests, between 55 and 66. This is a normal range score for my fitness and age.

    I have to say that the Suunto HRV seems way off in my case, so much so it was a bit disconcerting to me but glad I’ve found a alternative.

    Interested to hear from others with an HRM belt if they have tried the app and see different or similar HRV scores?

    Past Suuntos: X-Lander/Observer/T6/X9/X10/X6HR/CORES/Ambits/Spartan/9P/9PP Ti/Vertical Ti

    Current: Suunto Race Ti

    Past other GPS watches: Polar Vantage V; Garmin 6X Pro Solar; Coros Vertix 2

    Suunto App running on Google Pixel 8/Android 14

    M T 2 Replies Last reply 3 Dec 2023, 19:53 Reply Quote 1
    • M Offline
      Mauerwegler @mikekoski490
      last edited by 3 Dec 2023, 19:53

      @mikekoski490 This is apparently a complicated topic. Have a look at https://the5krunner.com/2022/01/11/hrv-more-than-you-ever-needed-or-wanted-to-know/

      I have read some of the linked blog posts a while ago and found them very interesting.

      Vertical All Black
      Spartan Ultra Stealth Ti (with Polar H10 or Suunto Smart Sensor)
      Vector
      iOS Suunto App (beta)

      M 1 Reply Last reply 4 Dec 2023, 02:28 Reply Quote 0
      • T Offline
        tiago Bronze Member @mikekoski490
        last edited by 3 Dec 2023, 23:26

        @mikekoski490 probably you are facing some software bug or the sensor have some trouble to do the HRV readings. I sleep with the Race on left wrist and Fênix 7 solar in right wrist and normally they agree in the values,some times the same value, others a difference of+/- 2 or 3 ms. Before I bought the Suunto i tried with the 955 and Fênix 7 and the readings are similar, so I don’t find issues in HRV readings. I think is like the accuracy of heart rate,works well for ones, don’t work well for others,and that can be many factors affecting. My baseline on Garmin is between 71 and 99 and 7 days average 73 ms ,in Suunto race,I don’t have the 14 nights, because I’m a night shift worker and sometimes the Suunto Race count my sleep during the day as a nap and don’t give me HRV readings,I think tomorrow will make the 14 nights of sleep,but my 7 days average on Suunto is 74 ms,so for me seems spot on

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
        • M Offline
          mikekoski490 Bronze Member @Mauerwegler
          last edited by 4 Dec 2023, 02:28

          @Mauerwegler Thanks! I think I do understand HRV. What I was surprised with is generally Suunto has good recovery and OHR sleeping metrics, but huge discrepancy between overnight HRV on Suunto (15 HRV score), and my Polar H10 with Elite HRV app (55 to 67).

          Past Suuntos: X-Lander/Observer/T6/X9/X10/X6HR/CORES/Ambits/Spartan/9P/9PP Ti/Vertical Ti

          Current: Suunto Race Ti

          Past other GPS watches: Polar Vantage V; Garmin 6X Pro Solar; Coros Vertix 2

          Suunto App running on Google Pixel 8/Android 14

          M 1 Reply Last reply 23 Dec 2023, 10:14 Reply Quote 0
          • M Offline
            Mauerwegler @mikekoski490
            last edited by Mauerwegler 23 Dec 2023, 10:14

            @mikekoski490 The HRV topic has come up again, especially comparing to the Elite HRV app. See https://forum.suunto.com/topic/10018/hrv-overnight-readings-thoughts/

            Vertical All Black
            Spartan Ultra Stealth Ti (with Polar H10 or Suunto Smart Sensor)
            Vector
            iOS Suunto App (beta)

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • L Offline
              larrybbaker
              last edited by larrybbaker 15 Jan 2024, 14:44

              I see issues also between what the Vertical reports and what I get through Elite HRV and Apple Watch using SleepWatch app.

              SV reports any where from low 20s to a high of 42-45 once or twice. 7 day average of 28.
              Elite HRV and Sleepwatch app [AW series 8] are consistently in the 50s for HRV.

              I believe I read soemthwere that Suunto only looks at the first 4 hours of sleep? Is that correct?
              The SleepWatch app appears to monitor it over night.
              Elite HRV uses the morning readiness a 2.5 minute test but random reading I have done over the course of a day always are similar - in the 50s.

              Sensor/Suunto algorithm issues or?

              SV Solar
              iPhone 16 Pro

              S 1 Reply Last reply 15 Jan 2024, 15:11 Reply Quote 1
              • S Offline
                Swaddy61 Silver Members @larrybbaker
                last edited by 15 Jan 2024, 15:11

                @larrybbaker As said above, this has been discussed in the other thread. The summary was that even the units for Elite and Suunto are different, so you are comparing apples with oranges!

                I think it is more important to follow the trends - i.e. if you get a reading above or below your norm on Suunto, then you should be a little more cautious, rather than looking at, and comparing, an absolute value with a different measurement system from, e.g. Elite.

                I also use Elite and Suunto. Usually, but not always, if I have an out of norm reading on one, then I will on the other - regardless of the actual absolute values.

                SV Ti All Black, Coros Apex Pro, Ambit 3 Peak, Ambit 3 Sport (sold), Ambit 2 (Sold), X10 Mi (Retired), Quest (Sold), T3 (Sold), T6C (Retired as unfixable - Suunto gave me a big discount on Ambit 2!), Polar H10 belt, Suunto Smart Belt

                L 1 Reply Last reply 15 Jan 2024, 19:05 Reply Quote 1
                • L Offline
                  larrybbaker @Swaddy61
                  last edited by 15 Jan 2024, 19:05

                  @Swaddy61 Thanks! kind of what I have been doing - just had not seen this discussion before.

                  SV Solar
                  iPhone 16 Pro

                  M 1 Reply Last reply 15 Jan 2024, 22:01 Reply Quote 0
                  • M Offline
                    mikekoski490 Bronze Member @larrybbaker
                    last edited by 15 Jan 2024, 22:01

                    @larrybbaker Seems like there are quite a few ways to get an HRV score, so yes making sure you are watching trends over the raw number is the way to go. My Suunto and Elite HRV trends always match. Below are what I found on the web for all the difference ways to measure HRV:

                    Parameter Unit Description
                    SDNN ms Standard deviation of NN intervals
                    SDRR ms Standard deviation of RR intervals
                    SDANN ms Standard deviation of the average NN intervals for each 5 min segment of a 24 h HRV recording
                    SDNN index (SDNNI) ms Mean of the standard deviations of all the NN intervals for each 5 min segment of a 24 h HRV recording
                    pNN50 % Percentage of successive RR intervals that differ by more than 50 ms
                    HR Max − HR Min bpm Average difference between the highest and lowest heart rates during each respiratory cycle
                    RMSSD ms Root mean square of successive RR interval differences
                    HRV triangular index Integral of the density of the RR interval histogram divided by its height
                    TINN ms Baseline width of the RR interval histogram

                    Past Suuntos: X-Lander/Observer/T6/X9/X10/X6HR/CORES/Ambits/Spartan/9P/9PP Ti/Vertical Ti

                    Current: Suunto Race Ti

                    Past other GPS watches: Polar Vantage V; Garmin 6X Pro Solar; Coros Vertix 2

                    Suunto App running on Google Pixel 8/Android 14

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • F Offline
                      fabula670
                      last edited by 24 Jan 2024, 10:20

                      A note of mine about my actual experience with HRV:

                      • just after resetting the watch (due to calibration issues - there’s a topic by me, btw.) my HRV range has experienced some inconsistency, as the watch shows that the normal range is 26-30 while in the app has remained the previous one (23-27).

                      • after a bit more than a week, watch shows always the same but app shows 23-28.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • O Offline
                        Oxhill_Runner
                        last edited by 29 Nov 2024, 06:27

                        Hi all. I have a Suunto 9PP and see a large difference between EliteHRV rMSSD readings and the 9PP values (also rMSSD).

                        My watch average is around 55-60 with a peak of 69msec but I did a reading this morning with EliteHRV using the Suunto HRM and it was 120msec, which is about right for previous readings too.

                        This is a huge difference, so my question is can both be compared directly ? @suunto maybe you can answer?

                        Thanks

                        M 1 Reply Last reply 1 Dec 2024, 11:02 Reply Quote 0
                        • M Offline
                          maszop Bronze Member @Oxhill_Runner
                          last edited by 1 Dec 2024, 11:02

                          @Oxhill_Runner These are completely different things being measured.
                          Another identical question, which has already been answered here.

                          O 1 Reply Last reply 17 Jan 2025, 05:18 Reply Quote 1
                          • O Offline
                            Oxhill_Runner @maszop
                            last edited by 17 Jan 2025, 05:18

                            @maszop
                            Can you explain why how completetly different metrics? Both are using units of mSec rMSSD …

                            M 1 Reply Last reply 17 Jan 2025, 15:16 Reply Quote 0
                            • M Offline
                              maszop Bronze Member @Oxhill_Runner
                              last edited by 17 Jan 2025, 15:16

                              @Oxhill_Runner Without going into more advanced stuff, if you read here and in other threads, you would notice that the measurements are taken in a different stage of sleep.

                              It’s strange that in the months since the last message you haven’t found time to read about it - you have all the information provided here.

                              O 1 Reply Last reply 17 Jan 2025, 18:30 Reply Quote 2
                              • O Offline
                                Oxhill_Runner @maszop
                                last edited by 17 Jan 2025, 18:30

                                @maszop

                                Hello maszop,

                                Thank you for taking the time to be patronising. Comments like that are the reason why I dont spend a lot of time on forums. But looking at your profile you seem to spend a lot of time commenting, fair play to you 🙂

                                There a saying I herd thats says ‘in an experts mind there are few options - in a beginners there are many’

                                … you are definitely an expert

                                Peace 🙏

                                M 1 Reply Last reply 17 Jan 2025, 18:56 Reply Quote 3
                                • M Offline
                                  maszop Bronze Member @Oxhill_Runner
                                  last edited by 17 Jan 2025, 18:56

                                  @Oxhill_Runner I am far from an expert.
                                  Let’s just respect the time of others. They also don’t have the time or desire to write the same thing several times.

                                  Best regards

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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