Steep counter

Zdeněk Hruška

@neonix Maybe one more question. What do you do with the metric? When you know how many steps you have done. What do you do with it? Are you watching some graphs after week / month / year and do some decisions about it? For example you decide that you will do 1000 steps more another week? Or how is the metric used in your day to day life? I am curious maybe I will understand why it’s important for you. Thanks.

@thanasis

Comic!
Just by moving your wrist, the watch counts steps. Try turning your wrist around several times without moving. You will have the impression of being at the casino in front of the roulette wheel.

Zdeněk Hruška

@Fizzgig How does it affect your day to day life knowing exactly how many steps did you do in a day?

pilleus

@Zdeněk-Hruška said in Steep counter:

@Fizzgig How does it affect your day to day life knowing exactly how many steps did you do in a day?

Your repetitive standard answer is getting boring …

My answer to that: I don’t need any data from a GPS watch at all for my daily life, otherwise I would have had a real problem with life and sport until I was 45.

I just need light, air and love …

Zdeněk Hruška

@lilaceo I work for Suunto? No I don’t have any relations so please keep the discussion decent. I have bought the watch. I made a research and bought watch which suit my needs.

I have never said there aren’t issue with Suunto watches and that everything is perfect. I was just asking several times why do you need an exact step count and what the value does bring into your life, why the trend is not enough. So far there weren’t any logical arguments from anyone. These are outdoor and sports watch from my point of view so I want their outdoor and sport functionality to be the best it can be. If there are issues on that side then I am pissed as anyone else here.

But in this topic everyone talks about steps. That’s all I wanted to say. That there is no reason known to me why it’s important to know exactly how many steps you do in a day. But I don’t want to repeat all my arguments. I am giving up on this discussion to be honest. If you think counting steps is important and valuable for your life then who am I to tell you something else. I believe you have read about the topic and made a research for yourself why to know the exact step count. I couldn’t find any resources or scientific studies in that regard and nobody here showed any.

Zdeněk Hruška

@pilleus And that’s why you bought an expensive GPS watch and complain about steps. Makes sense

@Zdeněk-Hruška

Unless I’m mistaken, the number of steps is included in the calculation of recovery. I don’t care about the number of steps taken daily, but when I spend 600 euros on a watch dedicated to sports, I expect a minimum of reliability. If we add the heart sensor completely to the mix, that’s a lot… Anyway, it’s a bit like Apple fans. Impossible to get objective feedback.

taziden

@Fizzgig said in Steep counter:

@Zdeněk-Hruška

Unless I’m mistaken, the number of steps is included in the calculation of recovery.

I don’t think it is. Where did you read that?

Zdeněk Hruška

@Fizzgig Yeah because I was giving here concrete arguments about the steps and about the issues which even the other companies have. I have never said anything to defend Suunto. I don’t care which watch I would wear. The steps would be still of the same importance to me. None. So I am not sure who has issues to be objective here

pilleus

@Zdeněk-Hruška

A friend said you can have it as a gift, so I said thank you and shook his hand.

And since I saw that the watch was counting steps without me taking any, I thought it couldn’t be and reported it here and there. In the belief that this is not a problem for a programmer. Because other programmers can do it too and don’t advise me to take another watch and throw it in the bin.

And I personally don’t care whether or not steps are important to you or anyone else. The watch offers it, the watch has to be able to do it.

Zdeněk Hruška

@pilleus Ok, so you are ignoring the whole discussion and jump straight back to the beginning. Great:) And also where did I advised to you throw the watch into the bin?
Just a rhetorical question because I didn’t. But because you have already decided that you just need something I think that the discussion is pointless.

Brad_Olwin

@pilleus said in Steep counter:

I keep reading tests about GPS watches and fitness trackers. They also compare and evaluate the accuracy of the pedometer. What kind of dilettantes are they?

I have learned one thing in this topic: data that a Suunto watch does not record correctly is unimportant and is not needed for a real outdoor sports watch.

And no, dear @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos, throwing the watch in the garbage is neither an argument nor a solution for me.

EOF …
@Fizzgig @neonix @lilaceo

This is a ridiculous argument. Calories and steps are an estimate. If anyone thinks that a watch can estimate calories expended by a human you are seriously deluded. I can go into the molecular details of metabolism if you wish. Therefore, the number of steps related to calories expended has little meaning.
The only reason individuals are concerned about steps seems to be meeting exercise goals. The recommendations for X steps per day to meet health standards are derived from epidemiological studies that have inherent flaws. My research is directed at understanding why skeletal muscle performance and function is lost during aging as well as understanding how skeletal muscle stem cells maintain and repair skeletal muscle. We are interested in the molecular signals generated by exercise that improve health and cognition.
I can state that we do not understand the basis for health and cognition improvements from exercise.

If we do not understand the mechanisms how can we know how many steps are enough to stay healthy? How much exercise is necessary to stay healthy and stave off aging? What kind of exercise? We don’t know, we just know that exercise is good for us.

So many metabolic functions and food/drugs affect heart rate and thus, training by HR should be interpreted carefully. You can feel great and have a harder effort with lower heart rate; you can feel worse and with the same effort have a much higher HR. Why? Could be you are sick, trained hard the day before, have significant stress from life or work! Interpreting numbers that your watch spits out and thinking that it meets some kind of standard for health seems short sided. Why not exercise hard when you are very sick? Because you feel terrible, not because your watch chimes at you “You are sick today, do not exercise!”
If you sleep poorly do you wait for your watch to tell you or do you know when you wake up? The latter for me. If any of you think your watch knows your health status better than your brain you are wrong.

If my watch says my HRV is low and I did not sleep well and I feel great when I wake up I ignore the watch, do you? The numbers from a watch are interesting but they will not keep you healthy, especially if you are asking what is the minimum I can do to keep health as you age.

Zdeněk Hruška

@Brad_Olwin Thank you for this argument Brad

pilleus

@Brad_Olwin

Everything you write is understandable. No contradiction. But what does it have to do with the watch counting steps when I move my arm?

Rename it to movement, take out steps and calories, then everyone will know.

Or correct it.

isazi

@pilleus agree, I would like to call it movement, I just found out that this is what Polar does (actually they call it steps but measure movement and say that in the documentation)

lilaceo

@pilleus I agree with you enterely

pilleus

@Zdeněk-Hruška said in Steep counter:

jump straight back to the beginning

We have never moved away from the beginning.

Since my 9PP and Vertical record steps when I move my arm alone, I assume that this is the case and that the two watches are not faulty.

No one has answered whether this is intentional, a bug, or if they are changing something in the background that goes towards “motion detection”.

I will ask these questions directly to Suunto and wait and see what I get as an answer.

@pilleus said in Steep counter:

@Brad_Olwin

Everything you write is understandable. No contradiction. But what does it have to do with the watch counting steps when I move my arm?

Rename it to movement, take out steps and calories, then everyone will know.

Or correct it.

I totally agree. Remove steps, and call it movement. Just like Polar and Apple Watch does with its activity rings. “Steps” metrics is very old, and should have been replaced with movement/activity metrics a long time ago. But when the steps functionality is there, it should work reliably. I’m not expecting it to be perfect, no motion based algorithm can be perfect, but Suunto’s steps algorithm is the worst I have ever seen.

Outdoorsy

@neonix Good idea. Since it is attached to the hand and measures hand motion, maybe call that metric hand motion or hand shake or simply, jerks. lol

Brad_Olwin

@pilleus said in Steep counter:

@Brad_Olwin

Everything you write is understandable. No contradiction. But what does it have to do with the watch counting steps when I move my arm?

Rename it to movement, take out steps and calories, then everyone will know.

Or correct it.

Ok, so this is more complicated. Unfortunately, customers want step count. So Suunto I think delivers what customers demand despite the demands being maybe not the best idea. I know in watches that are more geared toward fitness, S5Peak, S3 the step counters appear to be more accurate.
What you are proposing makes total sense to me but if the change drives customers away it is unlikely to be adopted.