Watch unusable in wind
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@maszop said in Watch unusable in wind:
I would rather have these 100m extra in Garmin than the current +1000m in Suunto
The +100 metres were on top of the normal Asc/Desc of ca 160 metres, so not an insignificant error.
Look, no one denies that you are having problems. But I strongly object to a blanket whitewashing of any company when trying to prove a point, and most certainly when it comes to such a finicky area as altitude.
Case in point (and another n=1 example): My FR955, bought in september 2023, is at firmware 19.18 which is two versions (soon to be three, ie 9 months) behind current stable. This because amongst the many bugs introduced by Garmin lately is one which randomly gives you Zero (0, null, zilch) altitude gain/loss during the whole activity. Flat as a pancake runs… But even with this old FW version I lately - before switching to the Race S full time - experienced the Garmin ‘about-to-fail’ sensor problem. Short, 6-7 km total, out and back runs on the most level path in my area had eg “Total Ascent 79 m. Total Descent 66 m” whereas the true figures should read an even 20 metres.
But you won’t find me wailing about that anywhere. 'Tis the way of penny-pinching companies, and I’ve already voted with my feet (for this training cycle).
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@Inge-Nallsson I use Suunto, not Garmin, and I don’t care that much what Garmin does. Especially on the Suunto forum. I only see data from Garmin users and they don’t have such crazy measurements as in the case of Suunto.
The complete collapse of Suunto is fact that current the most advanced Suunto watches with an advanced barometric altimeter and many years on the market can provide much worse data than the simplest cheap phone with only GPS.
For Suunto developers, this should be embarrassing.I think that further discussion is pointless because we have been writing the same thing for years and years go by and nothing happens.
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@maszop said in Watch unusable in wind:
I use Suunto, not Garmin, and I don’t care that much what Garmin does. Especially on the Suunto forum.
@maszop said in Watch unusable in wind:
Let me put it this way, I would rather have these 100m extra in Garmin than the current +1000m in Suunto.
@maszop said in Watch unusable in wind:
I know how the barometric altimeter works and what effect the wind and other weather conditions can have, but since all my friends with Garmin watches have more or less correct data, it means that it can be done
I’m confused.
That said, I guess we’ve already reached garbage time here for a while.
No one here has ever tried to “obscure” criticism, but there’s no constructive discussion if everything other people say is just “bullshit” or “fake”.@maszop, no one here is trying to sell anything to you, this is a Community Forum.
If you’re not okay with your Suunto watch, you can return it, sell it, or switch brand.
I mean, just find the one you enjoy and enjoy it. -
@maszop said in Watch unusable in wind:
@cosme-costa The Suunto graph:
https://i.postimg.cc/qMhcJDDr/Screenshot-20250128-114024.pngThe spikes are clearly the issue. I do believe you and it is apparent but…. I rarely, rarely see this with any of my watches. Can you contact me by PM? I am going to going to ask the test group. I think this issue is not common, at least for me. I may ask to collect some files.
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@Brad_Olwin said in Watch unusable in wind:
The spikes are clearly the issue.
the algorithm that calculates all the related quantities (altitude gain, loss, etc …) should include a running average to smooth out the altitude data, to eliminate the spikes if any.
Suunto Vector . Vector HR . Core . Race & Race S
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@Stefano-M64 said in Watch unusable in wind:
@Brad_Olwin said in Watch unusable in wind:
The spikes are clearly the issue.
the algorithm that calculates all the related quantities (altitude gain, loss, etc …) should include a running average to smooth out the altitude data, to eliminate the spikes if any.
if you use the search feature here, you’ll find that the folks on the forum actually helped with the algo ended up in use for the S9B when it first came out. There is some pretty open dialogue about what the underlying metric actually looks like
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@Stefano-M64 interestingly enough, the more you smooth and correct, the more you end up losing real-time metrics like pace or vertical speed
Watch: Suunto Vertical Ti
Blog: isazi's home
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@maszop said in Watch unusable in wind:
I think that further discussion is pointless because we have been writing the same thing for years and years go by and nothing happens.
Actually, just at the end of last year me and others provided Suunto with activity data for the same use case you have, bad weather (and wind in particular) affecting the ascent/descent calculation.
I believe it has not been prioritized because it happens to only some, and not always, and there is always something more urgent to fix. -
@isazi said in Watch unusable in wind:
@Stefano-M64 interestingly enough, the more you smooth and correct, the more you end up losing real-time metrics like pace or vertical speed
a good algorithm should be able to process raw data by eliminating noise and spurious values. Of course, that depends also on the kind of activity. For “slow” activities as walking or hiking data smoothing over 1 minute should give good results. It happens relatively often that SA gives altitude related metrics that are overestimated, only by importing the gpx data into an app (I use OruxMaps) that allow to the filter the data I get values that agree with the expected ones.
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@isazi Improving this current algorithm is essential - current measurements are often completely useless.
Yesterday’s example:
Suunto Vertical measurements -1502m:
Strava data - 1083m:
Garmin Fenix 7 - 1157m:
Suunto data after smoothing - 1198m:
It seems that the measurements from Garmin 7 look the best.
Suunto measurements - better not to even comment on that. -
Yesterday Suunto Vertical also shone:
Suunto Vertical measurements: 3247m
Strava data: 1690m
Elevation profile in Suunto App:
Total disgrace of Suunto.
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@maszop Could be a problem with your baro sensor?
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@sorinus This is the third, all brand new, watch that behaves identically. 9PP and two Verticals.
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@Brad_Olwin the other person who wrote about the pulsing is 100% correct about the issue I’m having. If you look at the elevation graph without zooming it looks kind of normal, even if you have several hundred meters extra. And the top elevation is basically correct. But what happens is you get these tiny up and downs, according to the watch, that can add a ton of elevation gain and descent as it happens so quickly
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@Niclas-Brundell And the exact same thing happens if the watch is submerged in water. You’ll see a huge spike in elevation followed by a huge drop when you take it out. (Someone wrote somewhere about taking a dip mid activity and having it throw the elevations numbers way off.) Seems an easy fix would be to add a simple filter to disregard any elevation changes faster than x meters / second. Others have figured it out.
Vertical Ti
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@Niclas-Brundell The cause is this pulsing, the solution is relatively simple, but Suunto has been pretending for years that the problem does not exist and does not want to fix it.
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Today was the wind stronger than usual. So the spikes on the meadows are significant (and the distance (3D?) is longer too). I’m wearing the Vertical on the sleeve.
(The “spikes” in the Woods are terrain)
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@maszop said in Watch unusable in wind:
@Niclas-Brundell The cause is this pulsing, the solution is relatively simple, but Suunto has been pretending for years that the problem does not exist and does not want to fix it.
How do you know this? On this post and others more than one field tester has told you otherwise. Please stop with the statements that are your personal interpretations of what you think facts are. Suunto is aware of this, collected a lot of data to implement a fix including my data as I have a lot. I do not know when the fix will be implemented.
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@duffman19 said in Watch unusable in wind:
@Niclas-Brundell And the exact same thing happens if the watch is submerged in water. You’ll see a huge spike in elevation followed by a huge drop when you take it out. (Someone wrote somewhere about taking a dip mid activity and having it throw the elevations numbers way off.) Seems an easy fix would be to add a simple filter to disregard any elevation changes faster than x meters / second. Others have figured it out.
Not that simple when skiing fast or paragliding! Water will always be an issue and I would not recommend jumping in water with a run or bike sportmode, do a mode fast switch to swimming and the issue will not happen.
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@Brad_Olwin Just look at the graph in magnification. Besides, sometimes you can see on the watch screen how the current altitude value changes quickly.
And as for Suunto testers, it looks like they unfortunately don’t see many problems during their tests. This is clearly visible when update is released or reporting problems on the forum, where testers always respond “I don’t have this problem”.
