Suunto ZoneSense
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@Brad_Olwin This is the graph of the race:
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@Brad_Olwin hence the caveat about being ill - I would never normally be able to do that.
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@The_77 Ill or not, Z5 can be sustained for minutes not half an hour. Your Z5 is too low, when ill you shouldn’t be able to reach Z5 at all.
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@Brad_Olwin Suunto’s docs suggest setting threshold at the Z4/Z5 interval, which if I do based off average threshold length efforts, is usually 165/166 based off of prior races - and my average HR for this race of 40 mins was 167, which is basically that spot on. If I changed if by 2/3bpm to 167/168 it would entirely flip the percentage zoning.
Suunto Spartan Trainer Wrist HR / 9PP Refurb
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@The_77 maybe I’ve misunderstood what you wrote but it sounds to me like you are expecting ZS to align with the HR zones you set in your watch which are themselves based on generic ranges like 60% or 70% of HRR.
To be clear, your HR zones should be set based on ZS measurements, not the other way round, if you do still wish to use HR zones. ZS needs about 3 mins to stabilise after a pace change so may I suggest you try something like:
5 mins warmup
5 mins at what you consider threshold pace
2 mins recovery
5 mins at ~ 10s/km faster than the previous rep
2 mins recovery
5 mins at ~ 10s/km faster still
cooldownhopefully that would push you just into vo2max and give you a first indication of where ZS thinks your LT2 point is. Doing a few more workouts at around that pace or HR will give you a general idea how to adjust your HR zones.
I know everyone is different but just to give you some idea, here’s my numbers.
resting HR (standing): 54
max HR: 187
Z2 -> Z3 (LT1 - where ZS goes green to yellow): 153
Z4 -> Z5 (LT2 - where ZS goes yellow to red): 172 -
@The_77 To add to @far-blue. Threshold is typically what you can sustain for 20-30 min. A Cooper test for running can help find your LT as well. I cannot sustain Z5 for very long and certainly not 30 min. For running a 40 min race, I would think the HR is likely less than threshold, that is a fairly long time. Have you done a Cooper test?
For cycling possibly a bit different, I used to have my threshold for a 40 min TT. F -
@The_77 According to Suunto’s model, the anaerobic threshold lies at the transition between Zone 4 and Zone 5. Zone 4 typically spans 94% to 99% of threshold heart rate, while Zone 5 begins just above this point and extends to maximum heart rate.
Zone 5 represents maximal intensity and is characterized by high anaerobic demand, rapid lactate accumulation, and limited sustainability. Time spent in this zone is inherently short due to its physiological demands.
Prolonged durations in Zone 5 are not practical nor intended in training programs. Instead, it is strategically used in short intervals to enhance maximal aerobic capacity and anaerobic power.
Physiologically it is virtually impossible to sustain Zone 5 intensity for 30 minutes—even for elite athletes—because Zone 5 corresponds to intensities at or above VO₂ max, where lactate accumulation, anaerobic energy demand, and cardiovascular strain exceed the body’s capacity for prolonged effort.
Therefore, if a race result indicates 30 minutes spent in Zone 5, it strongly suggests a miscalculation in zone definitions—most likely due to an underestimated threshold, like @Brad_Olwin said.
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@far-blue said in Suunto ZoneSense:
maybe I’ve misunderstood what you wrote but it sounds to me like you are expecting ZS to align with the HR zones you set in your watch which are themselves based on generic ranges like 60% or 70% of HRR.
Yeah no not at all, I don’t expect any alignment, I was just showing something from my side. My zones are very different to you, our resting HR is similar, but I typically see green to yellow anywhere from 125 - 140, and I can count the number of times I’ve seen V02 max region pop up on one hand, I’ve never got an LT2 from ZS. Max HR is 182, I hit 180 maybe 1/2 times year, I just have an interesting heart
@Brad_Olwin said in Suunto ZoneSense:
For cycling possibly a bit different, I used to have my threshold for a 40 min TT. F
That is more or less what I’m used to from my experience as a cyclist first and runner second, the 95% of FTP for a 20 minute test stuff.
As I said mind, if I change it up to 168, it’ll flip the graph entirely, I’ll see what difference it makes in the next race.
/edit: I must have forgotten to change it last year tbf after the last time intervals.icu advised to do so
Extra edit: did the anaerobic S+ test this morning, wanted to throw up at the end, as is proper
results vary from what you’d expect as you’d expect with intra-day HR variation, Runanalyze says HRV data is all good.
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How much time do I need to be in a zone, that the respective threshold is shown afterwards in the app?
It seems 4 Minutes is not enough.
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@Stoke80 In my experience, there is no simple rule. Currently I mostly row on an erg or commute by bike. In rowing I had activities where 2 minutes were enough. But that was an sustained sub threshold effort followed by a ramp test. Never did an FTP Test on a bike. But I got an estimate when doing fun repeats across a bridge that crosses an express way. Those repeats were shorter than 2 minutes but in sum they resulted in feeling very tired. Both thresholds are different by approx. 20 beats when comparing cycling to rowing in my case. But quite stable within the same kind of sport. Did you try a ramp test or a longer sustained effort that pushed you to your limit already?
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@Stoke80 I’ve not analysed in detail but my gut feeling is ZS needs to ‘see’ a clear change in the RR data so blasting through into VO2max for a couple of minutes and hitting max hr would likely work but so would multiple ‘dips’ over into VO2Max and back into threshold. I mostly get LT2 (Zone 4 -> Zone 5) recommendations from ZS when I run threshold runs where my HR is dancing either side of LT2 (as I go up and down hills) and I sometimes get a recommendation when I over-cook the last step in a progression run. In the same way, I mostly get LT1 (zone2 -> zone3) recommendations when I do threshold intervals of a few mins with recovery of about 2 mins as my HR has time to drop back down to Zone 2 or Zone 1. Basically, the more your HR crosses the LT1 and LT2 thresholds within a workout (with enough time between that ZS can track it - so HIIT doesn’t work) the better it seems able to recommend zone settings.
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@taziden or may be add the ability to choose permanently zone sense as intensity zones? alongside Pace and Power Zones?
If not yet proposed -
@fluca I don’t think that’s possible while ZS is still a SuuntoPlus app. But once the technology is stable, proven and not being developed as quickly I suspect it will be integrated directly into the watch firmware and then it would be a great option. While it’s still being developed quickly it’s much better to stick with it being an app because then the developers aren’t limited to the release cadence of the watch firmware
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@Brad_Olwin have you had a chance to check?
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@Maryn No answer yet
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https://www.correrunamaraton.com/zonesense-suunto-test-prueba/
5 Months testing Zone Sense. He found inconsistencies in data and several other issues…
It’s in Spanish, but maybe you can translate the text to your native language using any online translator.
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@Luis-Andés-Olmedo the interesting piece is that he connected two Suunto watches to the same Polar H10 and they gave different ZoneSense data what completely defers the point of using it…
Suunto Race S
Garmin Epix Pro -
@Luis-Andés-Olmedo I think, we will see soon a DC Rainmaker version in English. I watched the video, it’s a huge disappointment. Useless random number generator at least for the tester. Very sad.
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@Jan-Suchánek Rays test was a long time ago - I would say it would have been published already if all the participants would have agreed to do so…
Edit: It was November 2024 https://bsky.app/profile/dcrainmaker.com/post/3lbaymc64fk25
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@VoiGAS You may be right. Eduardo (who runs a marathon) provides information in his analysis about a “recent” test, nothing about it having been performed in November. It’s perfectly clear that Ray is the third person to take the same test, and that’s why we can draw any conclusions.
A few days later, Eduardo released a video with “clarifications” about possible confusions in the previous video.
https://www.youtube.com/live/003mEjs_j9Y?si=X-sc-sqqAUCGjAC0
Waiting for possible reactions or Ray’s knowledge of his personal analysis… in short, as far as my use of ZS is concerned, it is a tool more focused on RESISTANCE, ULTRAS… and above all, very personal for controlling your RPE with your device…
