Expected software update support length?
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@Stavrogin said in Expected software update support length?:
I think the question for the future of all the Vertical. Race, and Race S watches is whether or not the new OS that they have coming on the Run will be backwards compatible all the way back to these older watches.
If the information that has been leaked is accurate, then it seems a new feature for the Run will be the ability to play music stored locally on the watch instead of only controlling media on a linked phone. Given the Run also appears to be an entry level model with the Race the next step up, it would be weird and awkward if the Race did not also get this local music feature.
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@raven said in Expected software update support length?:
it would be weird and awkward if the Race did not also get this local music feature
Then there would have to be a way to copy music to the old watches… Wont work with the present charging puck (no data channels). Possibly, ahem, possible over Bluetooth, but then oh so slowly!
Based on pictures on Amazon the Suunto Run has a new puck that facilitates the music copying.
I really do not think they will dive into all the pain of trying to patch music onto older watches, and really do not even want them to try. Bug Heaven!
Suunto Race S
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@Inge-Nallsson Should be an interesting week!
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@Inge-Nallsson said in Expected software update support length?:
@raven said in Expected software update support length?:
it would be weird and awkward if the Race did not also get this local music feature
Then there would have to be a way to copy music to the old watches… Wont work with the present charging puck (no data channels). Possibly, ahem, possible over Bluetooth, but then oh so slowly!
Based on pictures on Amazon the Suunto Run has a new puck that facilitates the music copying.
I really do not think they will dive into all the pain of trying to patch music onto older watches, and really do not even want them to try. Bug Heaven!
Ah, I missed the thought of a new puck. I assumed wifi, or bluetooth transfer even though it’s not fast. How do maps gets sent over? Those are decently sized files. I see on the Amazon link the Run has 4GB of storage, while the Race S has 32 GB of storage. if the Race S can send maps to fill 32GB, then I’d imagine it can also get some songs.
Also, where is the music coming from? With maps, in my case I sent them from the Suunto app running on my iPhone. Even with a data cable connected to the watch, there would still be a wireless aspect coming from the phone. If the music situation with the Run is it requires connecting to a computer, that’s going to be awkward for some. I do most of my computing from an iPad Air, for example.
I’m under the assumption the new Run is largely based on the Race / Race S and will be a subset of the Race functions. The new local music, therefore, should be brought over to the Race series. We’ll see soon enough.
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In this case, i am not sure they will add music playback to older devices. This feature require more than just software. You need special hardware ( some kind of soundcard) if you want to play music efficiently. In case bluetooth connected headphones, bluetooth chip need to support it. I am not sure if older devices has this required hardware. But i hope other (software) features will be backported.
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@Tomas5 I can hear the millions complain as they do with Coros. "Where is my Spotify!?!?!?!?!
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@Tomas5 said in Expected software update support length?:
In this case, i am not sure they will add music playback to older devices. This feature require more than just software. You need special hardware ( some kind of soundcard) if you want to play music efficiently. In case bluetooth connected headphones, bluetooth chip need to support it. I am not sure if older devices has this required hardware. But i hope other (software) features will be backported.
For “older devices” I’m mostly thinking of my Race S, and my slight extension, the Race. While the Race S has a different optical sensor than the Race, I believe that from the OS viewpoint they have identical features? The Run removes the ability to have maps in favor of breadcrumbs (with only 4GB of storage, this makes sense), removes some sports modes going from 90+ to 30+ (which makes less sense to me, but whatever). For other older devices like the Vertical, I don’t know enough about them to judge at this moment.
My history before the Race S has been with Apple Watch, which has long had the ability to store music local on the device using wifi when on the charger and not needing a direct wired connection to a computer. The Race / Race S has bluetooth to connect to HRMs and cycling power meters, etc. so sending data to bluetooth headphones is not a large stretch. The sound is played on the headphones not on the watch.
I still think the intention is Run is the starting model, and the Race / Race S is the upgrade, and the two are siblings in the lineup, with the Run a subset (or the Race / Race S a superset) of functions. Then it may be the Vertical is intended as the sibling upgrade to the Race, but that’s less clear to me.
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@raven said in Expected software update support length?:
The Race / Race S has bluetooth to connect to HRMs and cycling power meters, etc. so sending data to bluetooth headphones is not a large stretch. The sound is played on the headphones not on the watch.
That’s not how it works. MUSIC (files) is sent to the watch, and only then SOUND is computed and sent from the watch to the headphones. With the right hardware, the mentioned sound card and the right Bluetooth module, which supports sending relatively good quality sound.
Likewise, there will be no sound in headphones connected to the server that do not have software multimedia support and a sound card/chip/module.
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@Tomas5 said in Expected software update support length?:
This feature require more than just software
Yes, I’m rather certain that doing pure emulation on these slow hardwares would give substantially suboptimal results. And can the Bluetooth Low Energy keep connections to a HR sensor, a phone AND earbuds at the same time without extra chips?
Grarmin’s first locally stored music watch, the FR645 Music, came 2018 (rather late compared to other large manufacturers). It did not have maps, only breadcrumbs:
My Fenix5X (with maps) came the year before, summer 2017, and despite being a ‘flagship’ watch never received any local music capabilities. That was saved for the Fenix 5 Plus, launched in the same timeframe as the FR645/Music, ie. 2018.
@raven
Suunto watches use WIFI to bring home the maps, the App involvement is purely as a command centre. But anyways, I still believe the Suunto Run HW-wise has enough differences that the older watches can’t be brought to the same level in this specific area; local music. -
@raven said in Expected software update support length?:
The sound is played on the headphones not on the watch.
I am afraid that device (watch) must support A2DP protocol for sending music and this is software feature, but at same time it needs to support codecs to encode music for transfer. And i am not sure if this can be done with so low power cpu without specific hardware. But i can be wrong here. Maybe there is way around this how to make it possible. Suunto probably use “off the shelf” components so maybe there are already this features included in hardware and they just didn’t use it for now.
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It seems to me the question then is, when Suunto was creating the Race and Race S, did they already have a roadmap knowing that the Run would be coming to fill in the lineup. If so, then I’d imagine the Race / Race S would be designed in a way to make sense once the Run arrived.
If the Run had come out a couple months ago, before I bought the Race S, I’d likely have bought the Run instead, if the main tradeoff is losing maps for breadcrumbs (as I only really could use maps occasionally when travelling) for music playback (which I’d use every day). I had / have the extra income for the Race S — I even went with the Titanium model! — but in a choice between Run and Race S at the same price I’d still choose Run for the music playback over the maps.
Now it may be Suunto can’t think that far ahead. Clearly, they decided to change the optical sensor from the Race to the Race S, which I assume was due to poor reviews of the Race’s sensor. So they can change mid-stream, as it were. And Suunto might also release a “Race 2 / Race S 2” with the local music if new hardware is required, but I think it’s too soon for that.
So do people think Suunto didn’t even have the idea of developing the Run until after the Race and Race S were released? If this is true, then I’m likely to lose faith in Suunto as a company. As it is, I’m already disappointed in how Suunto sends data to Apple Health. If Suunto does not have good long term vision I’ll likely abandon them. I’ve had devices that can do music playback as small as the iPad Nano in 2005, twenty years ago.
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@raven onboard music is a long debate. I miss a few things on my watches, but certainly not onboard music and I deeply hope it will not be added to my race S neither to my vertical because it would be really useless imho for what those watches are made for : adventure and sport.
I’m not afraid about support of SV, SR, SRs, they will keep being updated. I imagine it’s possible like today to have small (or « bigger ») differences in functionalities, but the same os base.
The main example for now is the Ocean. Is shares all features of other watches + diving.
So for the weeks to come I bet on a 3.xx version of the os for all watches, with music on the run as main difference.
Different watches for different targets, that makes totally sense.Suunto’s devices at home :
Vertical titanium solar
Suunto Race S
S9pp titanium sand
Suunto Wing
S9B titanium Ambassador edition, A3P, X6 -
@Tieutieu said in Expected software update support length?:
@raven onboard music is a long debate. I miss a few things on my watches, but certainly not onboard music and I deeply hope it will not be added to my race S neither to my vertical because it would be really useless imho for what those watches are made for : adventure and sport.
I’m sure there are features you use that I care little about, but that does not mean I’d wish for watches not to have them. The Race S already had a widget to control music on your phone, which I imagine you don’t use. I don’t use that either, but that’s because when I go out running I leave my phone at home. I still want to listen to music (or a podcast) during the run. From an end user perspective, local music playback is extending that feature that already exists. A further extension would be support for services like Spotify, which is not a feature of the Run from what we know.
The local music feature has now already being developed for the Run. If the feature did not exist at all, then I tend to agree with working on features majority of people want, even if that differs from my desire. Once the feature exists, then (to me) it makes sense to have a “device family” of “good, better, best.” If someone wants both maps and local music playback, what option does Suunto have for them? Before the existence of the Run, we could say “sadly, music playback isn’t a priority for Suunto, it does not fit with “adventure and sport”. Now the Run exists, and it’s a feature. Are you saying people who buy the Run don’t care about sport?
If Suunto did not have a long term plan, it would have been better to ship the Run without the local music feature, then in a year or two, release hardware revisions to Race / Run simultaneously adding it to both to avoid the dissonance I’d see if they don’t give the music feature to at least the Race / Race S.
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@raven I think that for many people Suunto watches are mainly a tool designed for sports and mountain hiking, not a smartwatch.
I hope that for Suunto music support is a much lower priority than the still not fully resolved important problems of contour lines, navigation messages, support for multiple sensors of the same type, interval training, etc.
But that’s my opinion, everyone is entitled to their own
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@maszop said in Expected software update support length?:
@raven I think that for many people Suunto watches are mainly a tool designed for sports and mountain hiking, not a smartwatch.
I hope that for Suunto music support is a much lower priority than the still not fully resolved important problems of contour lines, navigation messages, support for multiple sensors of the same type, interval training, etc.
But that’s my opinion, everyone is entitled to their ownAgain, if we were talking in a world where we did not know the Run had a local music feature, I’d agree with you. That’s not the world we live in, unless all the info we have on the Run is comically wrong.
Given the presumed existence of local music playback on the Run, this causes me to ask when did Suunto plan this feature set? How long has it been in progress? Was this feature on a roadmap at the time the Race and Race S were released? If so, then was the plan to then backport the feature to those watches (which means they would need hardware as capable as a 2005 iPod nano) or did no one at Suunto think of someone like me who values both maps and music?
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@raven If the hardware supports it, there is a chance that such functions may make it to older models. If the hardware is different, then of course not. What is there to discuss?
Most people are still waiting for solutions to more important problems and bug fixes than some smart gadgets.
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@maszop said in Expected software update support length?:
@raven If the hardware supports it, there is a chance that such functions may make it to older models. If the hardware is different, then of course not. What is there to discuss?
Most people are still waiting for solutions to more important problems and bug fixes than some smart gadgets.
Some people seem to be arguing there is no way Suunto can do this, as the Race / Race S likely does not have the required hardware. This would mean either that at the time the Race / Race S was developed, they did not plan to develop the local music feature. Or conversely, this was a strategic plan, as Suunto foresaw an audience that would appreciate local music on the Run, while disdaining the same feature on more expensive watches.
If we are talking “life importance” then in my local life, I know people who are struggling with a variety of issues due to poor decision by politicians in my country. I don’t think writing about things like LGBTQ+ issues in this forum is appropriate.
We’re on a Suunto forum discussing features, possible features, etc. on their devices. Some of us care about things like Sleep tracking; others never wear a watch to sleep. Some of us care about about optical HRMs; others use a chest strap for every activity and care less. Some like me care about music, as it helps motivate me during some workouts; others prefer silence.
You seem to be upset that I have the audacity to care about music which is weird. I wish you well and think we don’t have much else to discuss.
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@raven I’m not upset, I’m just surprised that you continue such a pointless discussion. I’ll say it again: if the hardware supports it, then there’s a chance. If not, then there’s no chance - simple.
EOT
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@Tieutieu so, we can suppose that the support of SV, SR and SRs Will be the same during years?
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@maszop This entire thread is entitled: “Expected software update support length?”
My thesis here is that while we don’t know for certain anything beyond what exists today for any specific watch, we can postulate on likely outcomes based on things like history with other devices, features of other watches in the lineup, etc. With the Run about to be dropped and many details out in the open, this has myself, as someone fairly new to Suunto, wondering about various things like whether the Run feature set was already a plan when other watches like the Race S was released.
In recent months I reviewed the offering from other companies like Coros, Polar, and particularly Garmin. I find Garmin’s entire lineup a bit bizarre and not really coherent as a whole. It seems they have multiple teams on various lines who don’t really talk to each other. Now if this is also true of Suunto, that the team putting together the Run has no relation to the Race, I’d find that minorly annoying aesthetically at least.
Agreed our discussion here won’t affect the outcome for this specific feature in this case, but that’s not the point. I’d simply write to Suunto support for that. Instead, I’m just chatting about things, and others who reminded me that the music support does have a hardware element and not simply a new bluetooth protocol transferring to headphones was appreciated, as that’s something I knew in the back of my mind but elided over as I felt the requirement wouldn’t be that difficult given the history of MP3 playing devices. Additionally, I’m not asking anyone else to care about this; you have other priorities and that’s fine. I hope you get the features you desire.
It’s the idea that someone wanting music isn’t really a sports or adventure person that’s mildly irksome. If that’s your stance, that’s fine, but could be kept to yourself. When I’m swimming I don’t require music, but I don’t have a problem with people who want this, for example, and don’t go saying real swimmers don’t wear headhhones: https://us.suunto.com/products/suunto-aqua-lime-blue
Coming into this thread and deriding me for caring about such a thing was both unkind and unnecessary.
