Several navigation issues (feedback)

dreamer_

Hello,

After testing the Race 2 and buying the Vertical 2 Titanium (a watch that I’m finding very improved when comparing to the previous generation), I wanted to share some feedback.
Please, keep also in mind that english is not my first language.

Map downloads are slow

While downloading a map is something that someone is not going to do everyday, the very first thing you notice is how slow is the map download in Suunto. You need to download a whole region in your country and if you live in a border area of that region, you are downloading 2 or 3 regions (like in my case). Coros and Amazfit implementation is perfect for this, where you just select a part of the map you select to download. I don’t consider this an important issue but this is also something to note.

Turn-by-turn notifications current design and issues

One of my (very big) suprises is that we still have the implementation of the previous generation through Komoot for the turn-by-turn notifications, while others (Coros and Amazfit) introduced their own implementations like, I think, 2 years ago (which are now very improved with several updates) . While Suunto’s approach works, and considering now the other’s have their own implementations, this is totally a bad design:

It means that users are forced to register in a 3rd party social network if they want the turn-by-turn notifications. The contrary means a feature lost. This should not happen and it also limits the functionality. Some users will not ever know their watches have this feature because or the 2 plattforms design.
The process of uploading a GPX track to Komoot to have then the track synced into Suunto’s app, is slow and convoluted. The user needs to do a manual intervention in 2 plattaforms to just upload a track to the watch to have the indications.
Garmin, Coros and Amazfit can import directly GPX tracks and have turn-by-turn notifications. No modifications needed, nothing.
We are delegating something into an external company. That means that if their service is not good, or if their systems are down, Suunto has afectation.

Said these things, I have tested several tracks. What I’m finding is that while it’s (very) true notifications are better than in Coros or Amazfit (Suunto has also roundabouts, U-turns and forks), my experience is the notifications are not as reactive as in Coros or Amazfit.

I mean, once you are approaching a turn (or a roundabout, an U-turn or a fork), it’s like the notifications are sometimes late remaining even not only inside the turn but also several meters after the turn. I’m finding things like after a roundabout the watch is saying there are still 15 meters left, which is totally wrong. And I’m also finding the contrary with notifications lost several meters before the arrival of the turn.

And the thing is that I have tried the same GPX tracks in Coros, Amazfit, Garmin and Suunto and it seems that only Suunto has these issues with the precision. Since Suunto delegates the turn-by-turn logic in Komoot, we also don’t know if this is an issue generated by bad Komoot algorythms or how Suunto interprets the tracks downloaded by Komoot.

In any case, it is not only a performance consideration but the explained points. And the thing is that considering Garmin, Coros and Amazfit can do these notifications without something like Komoot, it seems very clear Suunto should reconsider a redisign of all this logic. Users will appreciate it, and Suunto will not have the issues genetated by others (if that is the case).

At the end this is a suboptimal and a convoluted design. In my opinion software works better when the things are simple. Simplicity, when possible, should be a design goal and any accidental complexity should be avoided. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle

Missing turn-by-turn on/off toggle in the watch

In the route section in the application, we can see this:

Which means that the track is sent to the watch with turn-by-turn on or off. This is again a bad design issue. The track should be sent always with the turn-by-turn indications, leaving that on/off option in the watch (without the need of reuploading tracks using the phone). Garmin, Coros and Amazfit do have that option in the watch.

Missing voice navigation notifications

Turn-by-turn voice notifications are missing. These are useful in a trail run when you are running in technical paths and you don’t want /can’t look at the screen.

Climb notifications

There’s already a very good thread here by @sky-runner. I made very small appreciations that were answered by @joaquin with very nice feedback. While Climb Guidance is a fantastic thing Suunto has, some improvements are still left.
I’m referencing the dedicated thread, which in my opinion, is very good:
https://forum.suunto.com/topic/15016/vertical-2-2.53.42-map-and-navigation-features-are-greatly-improved-but-there-are-still-a-lot-of-old-issues-and-also-new-bugs-introduced-in-the-latest-update/

Auto-reverse:

When you change the direction you are running while using a track, I’m finding the watch is not as fast as it should reversing all the indications. I’m not sure if this is because of the Komoot implementation but I tested this, and the watch skipped 3 turns after changing my direction. Fastest is Garmin which, after changing your direction, notifies first an “Out of the route” and a bit later reverses all notifications according to the new direction.
This should be improved.

Auto-Routing / routeable maps:

I understand auto-routing should be improved. I don’t consider this so important at this moment when there are other things to consider before, but there’s work here to be done.

While it’s true the watch’s screen is too small for planning routes, there are several interesting use cases that the watch should be more clever. Actually, Garmin and Amazfit can accomplish these scenarios:

Auto-routing. This is very new in Amazfit (introduced last month). It does work but paths are not ofter as optimal as Garmin’s yet. I.E, you found a road cut and you are taking another path. The watch automatically calculates a new real path to the point you want to go. I tested this in the Ultra 2 and the thing is it works.
Just a a click on a POI icon in the screen and calculate a route using real paths. Same for the waypoints of your track when loaded (I.E when you are out of the route and want to go to that waypoint or just a part of the track or whatever part of the screen (I.E, a mountain, lake…)
Calculate automatically a route. You can tell the watch to calculate let’s say a 20km round route from point A to point B and using real paths. Sometimes watch’s screen is enough (see examples before) if the watch is capable to create the route without your intervention. The thing is this actually works.

I left this to the end, since (at this moment) I think it’s more like a “nice to have” . I think navigation will evolve with these kind of things but, for now, I think there are other things to have a look at.

Joaquin

@dreamer_ some points

GPX - TURN BY TURN

No brand, except Garmin, is truly providing reliable turn-by-turn navigation directly from a GPX file. Garmin can do this because it vectorizes the map data on-device and matches the track against a real path network.

Let me explain the other common approaches.

Case 1
When you import a GPX into devices from Amazfit or Polar, the watch simply interprets direction changes in the track. For example, if there is a curve above a certain angle threshold (around 30°), it generates a “turn”. This leads to multiple false turn alerts on curves, and at the same time, real intersections may have no turn at all.

You can see in these images what it describes; the lower field is the distance to the next turn.

Case 2
When importing a GPX into COROS, the logic is very similar. Sharp curves trigger turn notifications, while some real intersections are missed. So the underlying issue is the same: geometry-based detection instead of real navigation logic.

This is not what we want. On a 12 km route you can easily end up with 20+ false alerts. In ultra distance scenarios, this becomes not only frustrating but potentially dangerous.

That is why we do not implement turn-by-turn from raw GPX files. Until there is a way to do it properly, we prefer to prioritize accuracy over approximation.

From a technical standpoint, this approach is much more reliable, even if it may seem less convenient at first.

You can see in these images the route created in the Suunto app and the same route imported into Coros via GPX.

Joaquin

@dreamer_ AUTOREVERSE
Regarding auto-reverse, let me explain how it actually works on Suunto devices.

We have an automatic direction detection system. This means the watch can detect when you are following a route in the opposite direction and automatically invert all navigation indications, including turns and distances. There is no need for manual interaction.

To make this reliable and avoid false “off-route” alerts or incorrect direction changes, the system uses a safety threshold of around 200 meters. Once you consistently follow the route in the opposite direction for that distance, the watch recalculates and reverses all turn-by-turn instructions accordingly.

This behavior is intentional. It prioritizes stability and avoids constant false positives, which are very common in navigation systems that react too quickly to direction changes.

In other brands like Garmin, the system reacts faster, but typically first triggers an “off-route” alert before recalculating. In contrast, our approach avoids misleading alerts during short or temporary direction changes.

In practice, this also works as an enhanced Track Back. Simply by turning around on your route, you will automatically get full turn-by-turn guidance back to your starting point, without needing to activate a separate function.

It’s a different design choice: slightly less immediate, but more stable and reliable in real-world scenarios.

Joaquin

@dreamer_ Regarding auto-routing and routable maps, you are absolutely right that this is an interesting area and that it will continue to evolve.

As you mentioned, doing this directly on the watch has significant limitations. Even in the case of Garmin, where they can vectorize paths on-device, the results are only moderately consistent.

With Amazfit, the current implementation is not something we consider a good benchmark. In our testing, routing is often not truly intelligent. It can select suboptimal or even inappropriate paths, which in mountain environments can become a real safety concern.

For example:

It may not choose the shortest or most logical path in a critical situation
It can route a MTB activity through hiking-only trails
Or suggest paths that are technically not usable for the selected sport

This is something we also see happening, to some extent, even with Garmin.

For this reason, our approach in Suunto is different.

We prioritize safe and reliable routing through the Suunto App using offline maps. In less than a minute, you can create a route that is:

adapted to the sport type (road, trail, MTB, etc.)
based on appropriate paths
and fully controlled by the user

That route can then be sent to the watch and used during the activity, even without connectivity.

Our main investment has been in:

high-quality offline maps in the app
and seamless route transfer to the watch during activity

On-device auto-routing may look attractive as a feature, but today it is often inconsistent and, in some scenarios, potentially unsafe.

As always, we prioritize reliability and correctness over “nice-looking” features that are not yet mature enough for real-world use.

Return route created on the watch vs. Suunto app: a detour along a path that increases the final distance by 400m on this 3.5km return route. Imagine on a 20km route; it can be relatively dangerous.

When creating an 8km route, the watch creates a route of almost 14km.

I understand that sometimes it’s easy to get carried away by features from other brands that look very appealing at first glance.

But believe me, we test all competitors extensively and we know very well what they are doing. We are also fully aware of our weak points.

Our goal is not just to implement features for the sake of it, but to ensure that what we deliver is reliable, safe, and truly useful for the user, especially in real situations where it actually matters.

In some cases, that means not implementing certain features until we are confident they meet the level of quality we expect.

We prefer to focus on solutions that genuinely help the user, rather than adding features that look good on paper but don’t perform consistently in real-world conditions.

Joaquin

@dreamer_ Missing turn-by-turn on/off toggle in the watch

This is on our watches, you can find it in: map screen-press top button-notifications.

You can enable or disable turn by turn and climb Guidance notifications

elbee

@dreamer_

“ And the thing is that I have tried the same GPX tracks in Coros, Amazfit, Garmin and Suunto and it seems that only Suunto has these issues with the precision”

That is not my experience. On my previous watch, a garmin forerunner 965, tbt notifications 5k into my route where on time. 10k into the route just before then turn, 15k into the route in the middle of the turn and after 20k the notifications came after the turn. Of course I complained, but garmin support demanded a video of this behavior. That is their current goto reply if they don’t want to be bothered by bugs.

And audio notifications for tbt? No! No! Please no!!!
Garmin introduced this and they where forced on you. You couldn’t turn them off. People complained about this on the garmin forum. Garmin didn’t like the complaints so they closed the topic. This change by garmin pushed me over the edge and I sold my 1 year old forerunner 965 and bought a races.

What auto reverse concerns… compared to my previous 2 garminwatches, it actually works on my suunto. My garmin watches could only complain that I was heading in the wrong way (for 25k if I did a long run). You could manually select you wanted to do the route the other way around when you selected a route but then you would lose all tbt alerts. My suunto automatically detects which way I go. Maybe the newest garmins have improvement but I’m quite happy how it works on my suunto.