Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?

pilleus

A Garmin survey about the wish to have a MIP display instead of an AMOLED.

sky-runner

MicroLED would be the best alternative in the long term, but not now when MicroLED displays are still very expensive and prioritized for their extreme brightness rather than economy.

MicoroLED displays have a very broad range of brightness and don’t suffer from burn-in, so they could be used in always on mode without a risk of damage while being more energy efficient than AMOLED. But the technology isn’t fully there yet.

Tomas5

@sky-runner apple started using tamdem oled in some devices , it is two panel stack on each other. It provides higher brightness and each panel is not so bright by itself so it prevent burn in. But it must be expensive as you need two panels. And not sure about power consumption. But best part of MIP is low power consumption.

Łukasz Szmigiel · S9PP 2.50.28

@Tomas5 best part of MIP is its transreflective part. Meaning - it looks better when the light is shined on it, like in full sunlight. It doesn’t have to emit light to counter the brightness of the sunny day as the amoled has to.

Amoled is cool for smartwatches with rich interfaces, but to me - a sports watch should be a low key augmentation of a workout or outdoors experience.

I’m doing sports for the sake of sports or being outside. I don’t need 16 million colors histograms or graphs glaring in my eyes.

But yeah. I get it that the mighty market requires amoled.

sky-runner

@Łukasz-Szmigiel said in Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?:

best part of MIP is its transreflective part. Meaning - it looks better when the light is shined on it, like in full sunlight. It doesn’t have to emit light to counter the brightness of the sunny day as the amoled has to.

MIP is basically LCD - the same technology that was in old fashioned digital watches or in Ambit series. The only difference between MIP is LCD is that in MIP each pixel also have a memory storage (hence MIP = Memory In Pixel).

Audaxjoe

@Łukasz-Szmigiel I agree but… Amoled is just easier to read - especially for older people. I liked the V1, it was a fantastic watch but the V2 I can read without glasses. And in activities the battery is similar.

The reflective screen on the V1 is much better on a bike than the V2.

Łukasz Szmigiel · S9PP 2.50.28

@Audaxjoe maybe… We should ditch the “I have it all” sports watch and take indoor and outdoor series apart

sky-runner

@Łukasz-Szmigiel said in Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?:

@Audaxjoe maybe… We should ditch the “I have it all” sports watch and take indoor and outdoor series apart

It is not about indoor vs outdoor. I hardly ever train indoors but I strongly prefer AMOLED. I run a lot on densely forested trails, and especially when the weather is cloudy, it is just not enough contrast to see a MIP screen well, especially when it is behind a sapphire crystal. I used MIP watches for multiple years, and I am not going back because AMOLED is much more readable in this environment, especially when looking at smaller details on a map. With a MIP watch (Garmin Fenix 7X), map screen often looked like a blur to me - I couldn’t see anything except the main route.

Keep in mind that with age ability to see low contrast details really declines. It is called presbyopia. Presbyopia often results in reduced contrast sensitivity, especially at dim light.

Having said that, to accommodate older users Suunto also needs to work on improving contrast of the map screen trough a better choice of colors. If there is a navigation route it is very easy to see, but try using the watch without a navigation route, and green on green trails are quite difficult to see, and other map themes are not much better.

Audaxjoe

@Łukasz-Szmigiel haha. I have never had an issue reading the V2 outside. In the past this was an issue with backlighting but I certainly haven’t had a problem with the latest Amoled. I purchased the V2 on release.

Only issue I have is on the bike, the map screen dulls out if the watch is on the handlebars. I have a bike computer from Wahoo so not really an issue for me. However the V1 I had used that on long distance rides, and it was fine and the battery lasted days. I’d struggle to do this with the V2. Wahoo is better on the bike as the screen is so much bigger but the V1 did a fine job.

Now if they could make a reflective screen as easy to read as the Amoled…

Out of interest my first Wahoo had a reflective screen that was easier to read in bright sunlight. The latest version is backlight and I have had the odd occasion when it is harder to read in bright sunlight.

elbee

Sebastian Sawe ran a marathon in 1:59:31 wearing a watch with a mip display.

End of discussion, I guess

MiniForklift

I turn 50 next year and have noticed a decline in my eyesight over the last couple of years. Nothing too bad, mainly just with focusing and needing to read things at a further distance away so it’s not blurred. I’m still on my V1 which I’ve had for 3 years, still no issues at all with legibility and I don’t struggle to read anything whilst I’m running on road or trails. I do a lot of running in the dark and I find the display with the backlight fantastic; I don’t have a V2 to use as a reference point, but one of my training partners has an AMOLED (Garmin). It is simply way too bright for me, so maybe there’s a degree of personal preference with AMOLED versus MIP

VoiGAS

Bought a used Vertical1 after having problems with the RaceS AMOLED in the sun.
Vertical is a lot better in the Sun, Race S “From dusk till dawn” and indoor.
I’ll keep both, switching watches is quite easy in the App.

But I think AMOLED could completely replace MIP with better adaptive reactions to movement and sunlight. Max brightness is good already on RaceS

safari

@VoiGAS I still haven’t sold my Vertical 1.
It’s doing well compared to Vertical 2.
The sun’s contribution to charging is 5% under my conditions.
Vertical 2 finds satellites much faster in wooded areas.
The only downside is that my battery consumption is higher compared to Vertical 1.

elbee

@VoiGAS said in Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?:

But I think AMOLED could completely replace MIP with better adaptive reactions to movement and sunlight. Max brightness is good already on RaceS

Amoled will completely replace Mip. Mainly for commercial reasons. They sell way better.

There is a small (but loud) group who prefer mips because of readability in direct sunlight, battery usage and/or real always on display without any delays in turning on or needing a wrist gesture. (I’m in this group)

Some people find amoled better readable. Most have either had a sapphire mip display or have a gazillion datafields on their watch. For their use they have a valid point.

But the biggest group just find mip displays looking old fashioned and prefer a shiny gadget. So they buy an amoled watch

VoiGAS

@MiniForklift Good point - enabling backlight on the Vertical 1 should solve the issues in the shadows I guess. Just always forgetting to do it…

cosme.costa

@VoiGAS Because the solution is raise to “iluminate” only in activities. Older watches used to have it and the old S5P still has it. I’ve been and continue asking for this until I get it or change the watch

VoiGAS

@cosme.costa Yes, I am also struggling with the settings. It is available on the RaceS, but not on the Vertical 1. I am suprised and confused…

So not really a solution so far. Its possible to “enable” backlight on the V1, whatever that means. Always on, adaptive to the sun? But then the battery lifetime is cut in a half(!)

Edit: I think I found it. In the general display settings there is a “Standby” option. This enables adaptive backlight for activities - and unfortunately also for Watchface usage. @cosme.costa I now understand what you mean…

freeheeler

@elbee said in Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?:
(I’m in this group)

welcome to this group

sky-runner

@VoiGAS said in Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?:

But I think AMOLED could completely replace MIP with better adaptive reactions to movement and sunlight. Max brightness is good already on RaceS

The market thinks otherwise. The supply of MIP is dwindling because there is not enough demand, and as I understand currently there are only one or two producers of small round MIP displays for watches.

Another problem with MIP is that displays are thicker and require a wider bezel, which is not what most customers want.

duffman19

@sky-runner said in Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?:

The market thinks otherwise.

The original discussion here is whether a demand for MIP exists, not what the market says. Obviously the trend is towards AMOLED, but, also obviously, there is a small subset of consumers who appreciate the technical and aesthetic benefits of MIP technology.

Simply looking at device sales isn’t a great way to gauge what people actually want. Technology trends are often the results of what will make the most money for the companies selling the tech. Look at cell phones as an example. Remember the race to make smaller and smaller phones in the late 90s and early 00s? Think Derek Zoolander. Having a phone on you at all times was convenient, but people wanted it out of the way when they weren’t using it. Tiny phones were cool.

Fast forward past the Blackberry to the introduction of the iPhone. Normally, technological advances result in smaller, more efficient devices. However the opposite has happened with smart phones. They’ve only gotten larger and more power hungry. Why? Because now the money is in media consumption. Bigger screens, more eyeball time.

My personal phone is an original iPhone SE with a 4 inch screen. I love it because it’s small, easily repairable, and does everything I need it to do. I often get comments when people see it wishing they could have a smaller phone, but they simply don’t have the option anymore. “The market” has determined that giant phones are the trend.

All of that to say that we all know AMOLED watches are the future because they’re big, bright, cheap, and pretty to look at. If you have failing eyesight or just prefer this sort of display, great! I’m glad you have the option. But that doesn’t mean there is no longer a market for a more subtle display technology. It’s more that we’re a smaller, less vocal subset.

We’re also well aware that MIP displays no longer make financial sense for companies like Suunto. Personally, I’m okay with what I currently have (9PP for everyday wear, SV1 for big adventures). My worry is that once these devices die, there will be no new options for someone with my taste. Maybe by then the trends will have shifted and low-tech will be in again.