Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?
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@sky-runner said in Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?:
The market thinks otherwise.
The original discussion here is whether a demand for MIP exists, not what the market says. Obviously the trend is towards AMOLED, but, also obviously, there is a small subset of consumers who appreciate the technical and aesthetic benefits of MIP technology.
Simply looking at device sales isn’t a great way to gauge what people actually want. Technology trends are often the results of what will make the most money for the companies selling the tech. Look at cell phones as an example. Remember the race to make smaller and smaller phones in the late 90s and early 00s? Think Derek Zoolander. Having a phone on you at all times was convenient, but people wanted it out of the way when they weren’t using it. Tiny phones were cool.
Fast forward past the Blackberry to the introduction of the iPhone. Normally, technological advances result in smaller, more efficient devices. However the opposite has happened with smart phones. They’ve only gotten larger and more power hungry. Why? Because now the money is in media consumption. Bigger screens, more eyeball time.
My personal phone is an original iPhone SE with a 4 inch screen. I love it because it’s small, easily repairable, and does everything I need it to do. I often get comments when people see it wishing they could have a smaller phone, but they simply don’t have the option anymore. “The market” has determined that giant phones are the trend.
All of that to say that we all know AMOLED watches are the future because they’re big, bright, cheap, and pretty to look at. If you have failing eyesight or just prefer this sort of display, great! I’m glad you have the option. But that doesn’t mean there is no longer a market for a more subtle display technology. It’s more that we’re a smaller, less vocal subset.
We’re also well aware that MIP displays no longer make financial sense for companies like Suunto. Personally, I’m okay with what I currently have (9PP for everyday wear, SV1 for big adventures). My worry is that once these devices die, there will be no new options for someone with my taste. Maybe by then the trends will have shifted and low-tech will be in again.
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To add one more thing, there’s been some talk about how the top finishers at this year’s London Marathon all wore relatively old, entry-level, mostly MIP watches.
Not that marathon and road running is Suunto’s wheelhouse, but this points to the fact that there are many athletes who just need a watch to track the basics.
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@duffman19 I have a very unpopular opinion about this - the more serious you are about sports, the less you care about having the latest tech, etc. I’ve seen some people who shout and complain about everything do almost nothing, just track occasional walks. Different people have different priorities I guess.
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@OutdoorMan said in Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?:
the more serious you are about sports, the less you care about having the latest tech, etc
It depends, but yes, there are certainly a lot of excellent runners (that’s my bubble) that use older watches. Garmin FR 735, Fenix 6 and so.
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@2b2bff I think you are correct. There are a ton of people out there that use older tech. There are the early adopters, the tech insane and those that just do the work with what they have and that means Fenix 5s, 745s and even old Coros watches.
That is not to say that I agree that if you are serious about sports you care less about tech. I think it is very individual.
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Hence the phrase…
All the gear, no idea
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Yes AMOLED looks great indoors but for long outdoor use I still think MIP has a place. On watches like the Suunto 9 Peak Pro or older endurance models, the always-on readability and battery behaviour just feel more natural for hiking, ultra runs, biking, etc. You glance at it and the information is simply there without the “wake up” feeling AMOLED often has. I d definitely be interested if Suunto released a modern MIP endurance watch again, especially if it kept the cleaner/tool-watch style instead of chasing smartwatch aesthetics. For me the biggest points would be battery life, sunlight readability and lower distraction in daily use. Weight matters too, but I’d still take slightly heavier hardware over another bright AMOLED panel I need to baby during long trips.
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Went from Race S to Apex 2 Pro because of MIP…
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@suuntastic infused to have a forerunner 55 which is low end in the end. But what puzzles me for even the high end watches have low resolution and small screens.
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@brechtvb said in Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?:
But what puzzles me for even the high end watches have low resolution and small screens.
Because there are simply no MIP displays available that are high resolution or larger than 1.4". Furthermore, even if someone tried to produce a high resolution MIP display it would have a low contrast and look awful. This is a physical limitation of the technology. There has to be a tiny lens and color filter in front of every pixel, and that is difficult to scale to a higher resolution.
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@sky-runner
I think the resolution is fine as it is with V1.
only because there are higher resolutions on the market doesn’t mean we must implement them in watches.
I find even the map very good to read with its topographic details -
It is difficult to say exactly, but the main problem with MIP or AMOLED visibility in fill sun is probably not the technology, but maybe the sapphire vs traditional glass?
I dont know…
Today I compared Coros Nomad MIP/glass vs Vertical 1 MIP/shappire in the forest and I think Nomad has better experiences of visibility because of to much sun reflects on V1 with shappire:
my original post:
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Never had a problem to read any MIP, but could not stand the distraction and „noise“ of the Amoled Display. I prefer a not phony watch outdoor much more and also in the office…
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@suuntastic
totally agree with your comment about the phony watch. -
Just had a four hour hike yesterday with the V1 Solar on a sunny day. I had the map on all the time because it was unknown territory. Ths works absolutely perfect on MIP (V1) and not really on AMOLED (Race S).
On the Race S it switches to a reduced AOD mode and is not as readable in the Sun. Also Battery lifetime shrinks a lot. So for Hiking MIP has big advantages
Race S
Vertical Titanium Solar
Ambit3 Vertical -
@VoiGAS Do you have na experience with AMOLED on the sun and sunglasses? Probably the AMOLED is less visible…
Suunto Vertical + Polar H10
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@Adrian.S I have a V2, came from V1, I find the Amoled screen on the V2 easy to read in bright sunlight and dark glasses. I have the display always on.
It was my main concern buying the V2 that I would find conditions when I couldn’t read it but so far I haven’t encountered any.
Only caveat is if the V2 is on a bike handlebars. It isn’t as easy to follow at the V1. I use a Wahoo bike computer so no big deal for me but I’d use the V1 as my only navigation aid. I’d struggle to do this with the V2. But on the wrist the screen lights up immediately and is very easy to read in bright sunlight and dark glasses.
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@Adrian.S Yes, but also had problems with the MIP. But it depends on the sunglasses
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@VoiGAS said in Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?:
On the Race S it switches to a reduced AOD mode and is not as readable in the Sun. Also Battery lifetime shrinks a lot. So for Hiking MIP has big advantages
The Race S has a different screen technology than R2 and V2, the latter are LTPO and makes a huge difference. The R2 and V2 are the only AMOLED screens I can use and see when on snow doing SkiMo.
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@Brad_Olwin Really? Very interesting as XC Skiing is my other Usecase for the Vertical. Sun and Snow together are so bright that the MIP really shines. Also the Solar power collection is welcome.
For running I really like the Race S as it is much lighter and the OHR works perfectly since the last update.
Waiting for an Ocean 2 Titanium in the Race 2 case. If the new display is that much better it would serve all my demands.But as long as RaceS (discounted), Vertical Titanium (used) and Mares Divecomp together cost less than the Ocean I will stick with this trio
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