Several navigation issues (feedback)

dreamer_

@runyx17 said in Several navigation issues (feedback):

Just a note:
If I create a route in the Suunto app or the Suunto Route Planner, the turns are announced correctly, about 20 meters before the turn. If I create a route in Mapy .com, the turns are announced with a delay, usually exactly at the point of the turn. I dont have Komoot.

Guys. This is important. So Mapy seems to have the same issue as Komoot.

And, one VERY interesting thing:

If I upload my track in Suunto Route Planner, the end is also ok. Look:

But in Suunto Route Planner, can I upload a GPX (provided by a race organization) and have turn-by-turn directions?

Because it seems we can have a fix here for several issues related to TBT and even Climb Guidance. And it’s also very likely that autoreverse can be (just a bit) more reactive once the offset is solved.

dreamer_

Route Planner does not have the turn-by-turn.
I tried saving that route in Route Planner and then uploaded into Komoot, and the same issues persist in Komoot.

dreamer_

I created a support case in Komoot with the GPX and a photo that shows the offset. I should not (this is not my job) but it’s also I can do with my track. I’ll keep this thread updated with their info (if there’s any). I also sent comments in the Suunto App.
I made some manual fixes but I’m not sure that an edit of the passing points will make any effect. I also fixed the end at that mountain in Komoot but this is not good at all . I should not edit anything downloaded (in this case I know the track, but that will not happen in a track of a place I have never been).
So I’ll test this edited track. I understand I have (at least) fixed the end at the top of the mountain (and the out of the route and the bad climb guidance notifications will not be triggered in that point), but the rest is really a mistery.
Perhaps Route Planner is the solution. If you can make the imported GPX tracks have turn-by-turn, that’d be really fantastic.

dreamer_

Today I did another test with a different round-trip track.

Editing those points of the track in Komoot does not seem to make any effect. The offset is always there.
After a while, I went out of the route like 1km and then I returned to the route again and started running back in the route. The autoreverse did not work until a very long time. I started receiving notifications but after skipping many indications.

Another little thing:

The text when out of the route is extremely small and completely unreadable.

This needs a little fix (that icon is just an invented one as an example, and colors and everything should be according to the layout)

dreamer_

After 10 days, I have the answer provided by Komoot

Hello there,
 
Thanks for your message.
 
What you’re seeing is related to how komoot processes imported GPX files, and I’m happy to explain what’s happening and what you can try.
 
When you import a GPX file as a planned route, komoot doesn’t display the track exactly as it is. Instead, it processes it through its routing system. During this step, you’re usually given two options:
 
Stick to original route: keeps the track as it is, though some sections may appear as straight (off-grid) lines if they don’t match known paths. Navigation can be less precise in those parts. Match route to known ways: adjusts the route to follow mapped paths, which can slightly change the original track but often improves navigation guidance.
 
For round trips where the route overlaps itself (for example, going out and back along the same path), this processing can sometimes lead to unexpected results. You might see gaps, shifted endpoints, or the route not finishing exactly where it should. This can also lead to “off route” notifications on your watch.
 
Regarding turn-by-turn instructions, komoot provides guidance slightly before the actual turn to allow time to react. On connected devices like Suunto watches, this can feel more noticeable due to how the data is transferred, so a small offset is expected. Larger differences are often linked to how the route was interpreted during import.
 
Here are a few things you can try:
Re-import the GPX file on the komoot website and choose Stick to original route, then review the route carefully before saving
If the route is quite long and you’re using Premium, try importing it as a multi-day Tour with the same option
After saving, open the route in the planner and check that the endpoint and path look correct before syncing it to your device
 
If the route still doesn’t appear correctly after this, it falls into a known area where GPX imports can behave differently than expected. At the moment, there isn’t a way to fully prevent komoot from processing the file through its routing system.
 
If you have any other questions or need assistance in the future, don’t hesitate to reach out. We’re here to help!
 
Have a great day!
komoot Support Team

They basically confirm:

GAPs and missing parts which can lead to “out of the route” notifications (and wrong Climb Guidance ones).
Delays with turn-by-turn indications

So those both navigation issues Suunto watches have, are basically caused by Komoot, as I was pretty sure. I’ll continue with the support explaining other things like several turns in quick succession (and considering the delays), but this is a dead end.

dreamer_

I can’t try until Sunday but I wanted to share if anybody wants to try, since I have an interesting answer from Komoot’s

Thanks for sending the GPX file.
 
I took a look and found a workaround that should help you save the full route:
Click New > Import a GPS Route
Drag and drop the GPX file
Instead of selecting Import to Plan a Route, select Import as Activity
Tap Import Activity

 

This saves the file as a completed Activity on your account. On the map, the route should connect all the way to the end.
 
After that:
Click the three-dot icon on the right
Select Make a Copy
Click Save

 

The copied route will be on the Saved Routes. It should then show the full route from the completed Activity, rather than being cut short like it was when imported directly as a planned route.
 
You may, of course, delete the Completed Activity after.
 
Let us know how it works for you.
 
All the best,
komoot Support Team

So this solves the pre/post processing issues (perhaps) for the GAPs, and perhaps the offset thing. I’d like to test it now, but I’m out this weekend, lol.

dreamer_

said in Several navigation issues (feedback):

I can’t try until Sunday but I wanted to share if anybody wants to try, since I have an interesting answer from Komoot’s

Thanks for sending the GPX file.
 
I took a look and found a workaround that should help you save the full route:
Click New > Import a GPS Route
Drag and drop the GPX file
Instead of selecting Import to Plan a Route, select Import as Activity
Tap Import Activity

 

This saves the file as a completed Activity on your account. On the map, the route should connect all the way to the end.
 
After that:
Click the three-dot icon on the right
Select Make a Copy
Click Save

 

The copied route will be on the Saved Routes. It should then show the full route from the completed Activity, rather than being cut short like it was when imported directly as a planned route.
 
You may, of course, delete the Completed Activity after.
 
Let us know how it works for you.
 
All the best,
komoot Support Team

So this solves the pre/post processing issues (perhaps) for the GAPs, and perhaps the offset thing. I’d like to test it now, but I’m out this weekend, lol.

I tried this. I noticied an slightly improvement and the track is 20 meters more using this workaround. But the offset and the false “out of the route” issues persist. In fact, I’m getting wrong Climb notifications in this round-trip scenario (things like downhill notifications when you are going up and uphill notifications when you are going down). Autoreverse does also need a serious work.

dreamer_

Latest Komoot answer.

Thanks again for taking the time to test the workaround and share such detailed feedback throughout this investigation.
 
It’s helpful to know that importing the GPX as an Activity first and then copying it to Saved Routes improved the route ending behavior, even though the small offset and the turn-by-turn and climb notification issues are still present on your Suunto Vertical 2.
 
After reviewing all the information you provided, including the original GPX behavior across different platforms, it’s clear that komoot is interpreting this specific route differently during processing. Your detailed comparisons have been especially valuable in narrowing this down.
 
At the moment, komoot still needs to process imported GPX tracks through its routing system, so there isn’t yet a setting that completely preserves the original track geometry in all edge cases. 
 
We're constantly developing and working on improving komoot, and rest assured, we're actively listening to the community to incorporate your ideas into our work whenever possible. Since komoot is used for various sports and purposes, we receive a wide range of requests. We collect, categorize, and evaluate all input to understand what will help the most users.
 
I've shared your insights internally for review. You can stay up to date with the latest features and improvements on our What's New and Product Updates pages.
 
Please note that we release weekly updates for the komoot app and website. Ensure your app is updated to take advantage of these improvements.
 
Thanks again for your patience, persistence, and the high level of detail you shared during testing.
 
Have a lovely day,

That basically means, end of support using the words an user wants to hear. Komoot’s support admits the issues but just that. Nothing further. This seems a dead-end in any case.

dreamer_

said in Several navigation issues (feedback):

Latest Komoot answer.

Thanks again for taking the time to test the workaround and share such detailed feedback throughout this investigation.
 
It’s helpful to know that importing the GPX as an Activity first and then copying it to Saved Routes improved the route ending behavior, even though the small offset and the turn-by-turn and climb notification issues are still present on your Suunto Vertical 2.
 
After reviewing all the information you provided, including the original GPX behavior across different platforms, it’s clear that komoot is interpreting this specific route differently during processing. Your detailed comparisons have been especially valuable in narrowing this down.
 
At the moment, komoot still needs to process imported GPX tracks through its routing system, so there isn’t yet a setting that completely preserves the original track geometry in all edge cases. 
 
We're constantly developing and working on improving komoot, and rest assured, we're actively listening to the community to incorporate your ideas into our work whenever possible. Since komoot is used for various sports and purposes, we receive a wide range of requests. We collect, categorize, and evaluate all input to understand what will help the most users.
 
I've shared your insights internally for review. You can stay up to date with the latest features and improvements on our What's New and Product Updates pages.
 
Please note that we release weekly updates for the komoot app and website. Ensure your app is updated to take advantage of these improvements.
 
Thanks again for your patience, persistence, and the high level of detail you shared during testing.
 
Have a lovely day,

That basically means, end of support using the words an user wants to hear. Komoot’s support admits the issues but just that. Nothing further. This seems a dead-end in any case.

Today I tried the TBT of that roundtrip route in my wife’s Suunto Run and it’s a good test to see the issue. The thing is that the Run only notifies the TBT with a vibration so you are not looking at the screen for the TBT.
It’s super clear the vibration is inside but mostly after the turns, which is very bad.

Joaquin

@dreamer_ Run is a different platform compared to the other Suunto watches, even with its own dedicated R&D, so it’s normal to see noticeable differences in certain areas.

The focus of Run is to be Suunto’s entry-level offering, mainly targeted at road runners who occasionally practice other sports.

The goal behind Run is to provide an affordable watch for users who are not 100% outdoor-focused, allowing them to experience the Suunto ecosystem at a more accessible price point. If they enjoy the experience, they can later move up to the more “premium” lineup such as the Suunto Race S, Suunto Vertical 2, Race 2, and so on.

As an outdoor user myself, I completely understand your concerns and I even share some of them. However, I think we also need to carefully differentiate the entry-level Run range from the more advanced models. Let’s see what surprises a future Run 2 may bring.

Regarding the turns, this only happens to you with Komoot, right? With routes created directly in the Suunto app, everything works perfectly?

dreamer_

@Joaquin said in Several navigation issues (feedback):

@dreamer_ Run is a different platform compared to the other Suunto watches, even with its own dedicated R&D, so it’s normal to see noticeable differences in certain areas.

The focus of Run is to be Suunto’s entry-level offering, mainly targeted at road runners who occasionally practice other sports.

The goal behind Run is to provide an affordable watch for users who are not 100% outdoor-focused, allowing them to experience the Suunto ecosystem at a more accessible price point. If they enjoy the experience, they can later move up to the more “premium” lineup such as the Suunto Race S, Suunto Vertical 2, Race 2, and so on.

As an outdoor user myself, I completely understand your concerns and I even share some of them. However, I think we also need to carefully differentiate the entry-level Run range from the more advanced models. Let’s see what surprises a future Run 2 may bring.

Regarding the turns, this only happens to you with Komoot, right? With routes created directly in the Suunto app, everything works perfectly?

I tested the Run using the route created with Komoot’s algorythms. That’s the key of my post (no matter if I was using the Run or my Vertical 2 Titanium, since I used Komoot’s algorythms for creating the GPX with TBT indications).

About the issue, you are right. It seems created by Komoot and it happens in both my Vertical 2 and my wife’s Run. It’s very clear Joaquin. In fact, Komoot’s support confirmed the offset is created by them.
There are also several things I was talking , like missing the final part in that route because Komoot’s issue or wrong Climb notifications because Komoot does a pre/post-processing of the routes, affecting the performance of the navigation to several things.

But if you want TBT in a route that is already created (I.E, a GPX track provided by a race organization) , at this moment. you need to use Komoot.

In my opinion, now you have a super nice tool like Route Planner, I’d be incredible nice if all the algorythms are made by Suunto instead of using Komoot’s.