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    Suunto 9 baro very low elevation gain vs other brands

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Suunto 9
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    • cosme.costaC Online
      cosme.costa @pilleus
      last edited by

      @pilleus Well mi experience is different, in trail running differences can be very big, more than one hundred meters in a 400 m ascent run.

      For the MTB, I’m using a dedicated barometric GPS that has always overrode the Strava correction, and Strava shows the GPS value but I have checked using Strava’s correction and:

      GPS: 803 m / Strava 766 m
      GPS: 697 m / Strava 635 m
      GPS: 711 m / Strava 630 m

      And this are 3 random activities that I checked.

      So…

      pilleusP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • pilleusP Online
        pilleus @cosme.costa
        last edited by pilleus

        @cosmecosta I think the problem is the terrain. A GPS track 3 meters away from the path or street in steep and hilly terrain will cause a miscalculation of Strava’s GPS based data.

        And I experienced that my SSU is more accurate recording the ascent than my S9B.

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        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
        • OktanO Offline
          Oktan @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
          last edited by

          @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Suunto 9 baro very low elevation gain vs other brands:

          Expected

          I dont know how to send you a private message so I loded it here:

          1. This is the FIT file from Suunto App (with elevation gain 1243 m):
            MountainBiking_2020-12-18T06_44_10.fit

          2. The elevation gain in Strava is: 1542 m.

          Suunto 9 Baro Titanium & Ambit 3 Peak

          Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
            Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @Oktan
            last edited by Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

            @Oktan

            So this is what I do.

            I go to https://runalyze.com/activity/new-upload and upload the fit file.

            Then I go to course and elevation data and I correct them with the various DEDB (elevation databases) that the great Runalyze offers

            Look at the thresholds! Even Runanalyze defaults to 3m but take a good look and see what is produced with other thresholds as well

            1. Racemap elevation service
              Screenshot 2020-12-23 at 14.32.33.png
            2. Geotiff
              Screenshot 2020-12-23 at 14.34.54.png
            3. Geonames
              Screenshot 2020-12-23 at 14.35.32.png
            4. Geonames ASter
              Screenshot 2020-12-23 at 14.36.10.png

            To be honest all show less actually than Strava.

            Now since you are using comparing whahoo I had seen this video at the past https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPyEtZH3QaU about how much positioning could affect a garmin computer. But I suppose the same flaws can happen with the S9.

            My conclusion is that it’s up to you to judge how much ascent you did and with what threshold.

            As a reference example here is an analysis of my 16km almost flat bikeride at Netherlands. It is completely almost flat here so:

            1. No correction (still 13m)
              Screenshot 2020-12-23 at 14.44.21.png
            2. Racemap
              Screenshot 2020-12-23 at 14.44.55.png
            3. Geotiff
              Screenshot 2020-12-23 at 14.45.28.png
            4. Geonames
              Screenshot 2020-12-23 at 14.45.52.png
            5. Geonames aster -> Completly wrong
              Screenshot 2020-12-23 at 14.46.40.png

            Now, this is my personal opinion.

            If you get bothered and you want those extra meters to show at your Strava / Other service or your friends get more ascent etc my advice as I would give to a friend is to get the same device that their friends use or the one that gives you what you want to see for your data.

            Why this advice ? Because it all about perspective and no perspective can fit everyone.

            I hope this helps

            PS: The highlight on the screenshots shows what Runalyze prefers it’s not me highlighting that .

            Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
            Creator of Quantified-Self.io
            youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
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            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 7
            • OktanO Offline
              Oktan
              last edited by

              @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Suunto 9 baro very low elevation gain vs other brands:

              Racemap

              Thank you for your time.
              I played with it a bit.

              Threshold = 1 , without correction -> 1529, this is what I expected to get.
              Maybe we are lossing too much elevation with Threshold = 3.
              It was great if the user could have set it in his watch settings.

              7d4a42f7-2693-4726-8751-e755764d3f11-image.png

              Suunto 9 Baro Titanium & Ambit 3 Peak

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
              • M Offline
                Marco Stranieri @Oktan
                last edited by

                @Oktan I think soo. My Suunto 9 sometimes it shows up to 100-150m of elevation difference regarding other brands or even with Suunto spartan and suunto 7. (Talknig about just for 500m of elevation gain). For example my suunto shows 479m gain and friends’ one it shows 580m

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • EgikaE Online
                  Egika Platinum Member
                  last edited by

                  There’s one important thing missing in the discussion about thresholds etc.
                  It is the sensor accuracy itself.
                  We are talking about a measurement device that only works down to a certain precision.
                  Plus it is affected by influence like wind turbulence while moving.
                  In a perfect world or laboratory setting it could probably register pressure changes that are as small as 1ft or 1m causes it.
                  But in real life there is noise to the data.
                  This is why it totally makes sense to use thresholds, filtering and other logical information like sport mode or speed etc.
                  If you switched the threshold to 1m, you would just see a lof of this sensor noise in your data which just don’t make sense.

                  My 2c from an engineer perspective specializing in measurement technology

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                  Dimitrios KanellopoulosD OktanO 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 7
                  • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                    Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @Egika
                    last edited by

                    @Egika thanks man

                    Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                    Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                    youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                    https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                    https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • OktanO Offline
                      Oktan @Egika
                      last edited by

                      @Egika I get it, but I add: why not let the user define it in the watch?
                      Suunto can set it to 3 as default.
                      The user can choose to set it between 1 to 3, and still proudly ride with Garmin owners friends 😊 .

                      Suunto 9 Baro Titanium & Ambit 3 Peak

                      freeheelerF isaziI 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • freeheelerF Offline
                        freeheeler @Oktan
                        last edited by

                        @Oktan
                        who proofs that Garmin is calculating the total ascent “more correct” in all different possible use cases?

                        living sideways

                        OktanO sky-runnerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • OktanO Offline
                          Oktan @freeheeler
                          last edited by

                          @TELE-HO I just assumed that if Garmin, Wahoo and Strava app display more or less similar values - most chances they are calculating right.

                          Suunto 9 Baro Titanium & Ambit 3 Peak

                          freeheelerF 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • freeheelerF Offline
                            freeheeler @Oktan
                            last edited by

                            @Oktan
                            I once observed a recording from a friend who did a roadbike ride of >4’000m ascent and was heavily impressed. He recorded it with the Strava App and when I looked at the details I noticed that it summed up completely wrong… it was something around 2’500m ascent. Not a piece of cake either, but I noticed this over all his activities then…

                            living sideways

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • freeheelerF Offline
                              freeheeler @Oktan
                              last edited by

                              @Oktan
                              but hey, don’t get me wrong here. We all know that I don’t know it better wither 😉
                              It’s just my feeling that Suunto is aiming for an accurate summary and covers many type of sports. Strava, I have no idea, there are many strange things that prevent me from paying for a pro account… Wahoo has a nice reputation but as far as I know it is more developed for cyclists?

                              As @Egika says the watches are measurement devices (I remember Suunto sensor has an accuracy of 20cm…) and the rest is a software thing.

                              living sideways

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • isaziI Online
                                isazi Moderator @Oktan
                                last edited by

                                @Oktan said in Suunto 9 baro very low elevation gain vs other brands:

                                @Egika I get it, but I add: why not let the user define it in the watch?
                                Suunto can set it to 3 as default.
                                The user can choose to set it between 1 to 3, and still proudly ride with Garmin owners friends 😊 .

                                As a user I am 100% for messing with stuff (although it may bite me back eventually), but if I was a company I would think about all the calls I would get to my support just because users messed up things 🙂

                                Watch: Suunto Vertical Ti

                                Blog: isazi's home

                                freeheelerF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                • freeheelerF Offline
                                  freeheeler @isazi
                                  last edited by

                                  @isazi
                                  with Android I remember that real cracks did root their devices… 🙊

                                  living sideways

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • fazelF Offline
                                    fazel Bronze Member
                                    last edited by

                                    My personal opinion is transparency goes a long way. @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos explanations provide context and through that - understanding. It is clear total ascent values are tricky and it would be easier for Suunto to make every decision in favor of greater accumulated gain as this would make all of us feel better about our efforts. It appears they’ve instead chosen to make every decision with the goal of being as accurate as possible. They deserve credit for taking the harder road IMO.

                                    sartoricS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
                                    • sartoricS Offline
                                      sartoric Moderator @fazel
                                      last edited by sartoric

                                      @fazel said in Suunto 9 baro very low elevation gain vs other brands:

                                      this would make all of us feel better about our efforts.

                                      Unfortunately this is what “modern athletes” want from sport watches/platform … showing that they have it bigger 😁
                                      Very low percentage of “athletes” do sports for their own satisfaction nowadays 🙂

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                                      OktanO 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                                      • OktanO Offline
                                        Oktan @sartoric
                                        last edited by

                                        @sartoric isnt satisfaction goes bigger when you got, hmmm, bigger?

                                        Suunto 9 Baro Titanium & Ambit 3 Peak

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • sky-runnerS Offline
                                          sky-runner Silver Members @freeheeler
                                          last edited by sky-runner

                                          @TELE-HO said in Suunto 9 baro very low elevation gain vs other brands:

                                          who proofs that Garmin is calculating the total ascent “more correct” in all different possible use cases?

                                          The proof is very easy to get - just open the elevation profile generated from an activity and add all the climbs manually - that isn’t difficult at all. When I did that in the past I ignored all small elevation changes less than 3 meters, but even then Suunto 9 was often short on total ascent compared to its own elevation profile.

                                          Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -1
                                          • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                                            Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @sky-runner
                                            last edited by Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

                                            @sky-runner that is not proof. We could enable to the the hand flux of 1meter. We have a 3meter threshold and that’s it. That’s what most good services use such as runalyze as mentioned before.

                                            We do data analysis here giving correct values.

                                            I even went and explained with pics and what ? Did you see what all databases reported for this users examples with the different thresholds ?

                                            While there is an literal obsession with this subject on your side , I am not sure why over and over I have to explain how things work.

                                            Like Hellllloooo @sky-runner !

                                            Did you even read the post with the thresholds , what other services use (digital elevation databases ) etc or what ? Came to say the same thing without helping ?

                                            What’s up? Is this about you being right ? What’s the problem here ? Trying to enforce SUUNTO to do it the way you want it for your self ? Doesn’t Garmin do it as you like ?

                                            I do t get you anymore. Sorry over and out.

                                            Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                                            Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                                            youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                            https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                            https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

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