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    Suunto 9 baro very low elevation gain vs other brands

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Suunto 9
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    • M Offline
      Marco Stranieri @Oktan
      last edited by

      @Oktan I think soo. My Suunto 9 sometimes it shows up to 100-150m of elevation difference regarding other brands or even with Suunto spartan and suunto 7. (Talknig about just for 500m of elevation gain). For example my suunto shows 479m gain and friends’ one it shows 580m

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      • EgikaE Online
        Egika Platinum Member
        last edited by

        There’s one important thing missing in the discussion about thresholds etc.
        It is the sensor accuracy itself.
        We are talking about a measurement device that only works down to a certain precision.
        Plus it is affected by influence like wind turbulence while moving.
        In a perfect world or laboratory setting it could probably register pressure changes that are as small as 1ft or 1m causes it.
        But in real life there is noise to the data.
        This is why it totally makes sense to use thresholds, filtering and other logical information like sport mode or speed etc.
        If you switched the threshold to 1m, you would just see a lof of this sensor noise in your data which just don’t make sense.

        My 2c from an engineer perspective specializing in measurement technology

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        Dimitrios KanellopoulosD OktanO 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 7
        • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
          Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @Egika
          last edited by

          @Egika thanks man

          Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
          Creator of Quantified-Self.io
          youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
          https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
          https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

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          • OktanO Offline
            Oktan @Egika
            last edited by

            @Egika I get it, but I add: why not let the user define it in the watch?
            Suunto can set it to 3 as default.
            The user can choose to set it between 1 to 3, and still proudly ride with Garmin owners friends 😊 .

            Suunto 9 Baro Titanium & Ambit 3 Peak

            freeheelerF isaziI 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • freeheelerF Offline
              freeheeler @Oktan
              last edited by

              @Oktan
              who proofs that Garmin is calculating the total ascent “more correct” in all different possible use cases?

              living sideways

              OktanO sky-runnerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • OktanO Offline
                Oktan @freeheeler
                last edited by

                @TELE-HO I just assumed that if Garmin, Wahoo and Strava app display more or less similar values - most chances they are calculating right.

                Suunto 9 Baro Titanium & Ambit 3 Peak

                freeheelerF 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • freeheelerF Offline
                  freeheeler @Oktan
                  last edited by

                  @Oktan
                  I once observed a recording from a friend who did a roadbike ride of >4’000m ascent and was heavily impressed. He recorded it with the Strava App and when I looked at the details I noticed that it summed up completely wrong… it was something around 2’500m ascent. Not a piece of cake either, but I noticed this over all his activities then…

                  living sideways

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                  • freeheelerF Offline
                    freeheeler @Oktan
                    last edited by

                    @Oktan
                    but hey, don’t get me wrong here. We all know that I don’t know it better wither 😉
                    It’s just my feeling that Suunto is aiming for an accurate summary and covers many type of sports. Strava, I have no idea, there are many strange things that prevent me from paying for a pro account… Wahoo has a nice reputation but as far as I know it is more developed for cyclists?

                    As @Egika says the watches are measurement devices (I remember Suunto sensor has an accuracy of 20cm…) and the rest is a software thing.

                    living sideways

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                    • isaziI Online
                      isazi Moderator @Oktan
                      last edited by

                      @Oktan said in Suunto 9 baro very low elevation gain vs other brands:

                      @Egika I get it, but I add: why not let the user define it in the watch?
                      Suunto can set it to 3 as default.
                      The user can choose to set it between 1 to 3, and still proudly ride with Garmin owners friends 😊 .

                      As a user I am 100% for messing with stuff (although it may bite me back eventually), but if I was a company I would think about all the calls I would get to my support just because users messed up things 🙂

                      Watch: Suunto Vertical Ti

                      Blog: isazi's home

                      freeheelerF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                      • freeheelerF Offline
                        freeheeler @isazi
                        last edited by

                        @isazi
                        with Android I remember that real cracks did root their devices… 🙊

                        living sideways

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                        • fazelF Offline
                          fazel Bronze Member
                          last edited by

                          My personal opinion is transparency goes a long way. @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos explanations provide context and through that - understanding. It is clear total ascent values are tricky and it would be easier for Suunto to make every decision in favor of greater accumulated gain as this would make all of us feel better about our efforts. It appears they’ve instead chosen to make every decision with the goal of being as accurate as possible. They deserve credit for taking the harder road IMO.

                          sartoricS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
                          • sartoricS Offline
                            sartoric Moderator @fazel
                            last edited by sartoric

                            @fazel said in Suunto 9 baro very low elevation gain vs other brands:

                            this would make all of us feel better about our efforts.

                            Unfortunately this is what “modern athletes” want from sport watches/platform … showing that they have it bigger 😁
                            Very low percentage of “athletes” do sports for their own satisfaction nowadays 🙂

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                            OktanO 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
                            • OktanO Offline
                              Oktan @sartoric
                              last edited by

                              @sartoric isnt satisfaction goes bigger when you got, hmmm, bigger?

                              Suunto 9 Baro Titanium & Ambit 3 Peak

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • sky-runnerS Offline
                                sky-runner Silver Members @freeheeler
                                last edited by sky-runner

                                @TELE-HO said in Suunto 9 baro very low elevation gain vs other brands:

                                who proofs that Garmin is calculating the total ascent “more correct” in all different possible use cases?

                                The proof is very easy to get - just open the elevation profile generated from an activity and add all the climbs manually - that isn’t difficult at all. When I did that in the past I ignored all small elevation changes less than 3 meters, but even then Suunto 9 was often short on total ascent compared to its own elevation profile.

                                Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -1
                                • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                                  Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @sky-runner
                                  last edited by Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

                                  @sky-runner that is not proof. We could enable to the the hand flux of 1meter. We have a 3meter threshold and that’s it. That’s what most good services use such as runalyze as mentioned before.

                                  We do data analysis here giving correct values.

                                  I even went and explained with pics and what ? Did you see what all databases reported for this users examples with the different thresholds ?

                                  While there is an literal obsession with this subject on your side , I am not sure why over and over I have to explain how things work.

                                  Like Hellllloooo @sky-runner !

                                  Did you even read the post with the thresholds , what other services use (digital elevation databases ) etc or what ? Came to say the same thing without helping ?

                                  What’s up? Is this about you being right ? What’s the problem here ? Trying to enforce SUUNTO to do it the way you want it for your self ? Doesn’t Garmin do it as you like ?

                                  I do t get you anymore. Sorry over and out.

                                  Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                                  Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                                  youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                  https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                  https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 6
                                  • sky-runnerS Offline
                                    sky-runner Silver Members
                                    last edited by sky-runner

                                    @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Suunto 9 baro very low elevation gain vs other brands:

                                    While there is an literal obsession with this subject on your side

                                    Because Suunto 9 Baro total ascent calculation is really bad. It is an outlier when compared to all other watches, and that is something that really frustrated me, up to the point that I sold my year-and-half old S9B and moved to another watch.

                                    Here is an example of what I mean. Here is the data that I collected by looking at Strava Flybys on activities recorded during 2019 and 2020 Bridle Trails Winter Trail Running Festival. This race is on moderate runnable rolling terrain. The festival races consist of multiple 5 mile loops - 1 to 6 loops depending on the distance. I looked at each activity on Strava and divided it on the number of loops. The table below shows total ascent in feet per loop, per device. All of these devices have barometers so I assumed the numbers on Strava match the ascent produced by each device, and I grouped ascents from all non-barometric devices in the bottom:

                                    Suunto 9: 310, 295, 306, 310
                                    Ambit 3 Peak: 406, 399, 377


                                    Fenix 6: 366
                                    Fenix 5: 368, 381, 360, 364, 338, 346, 347


                                    Fenix 3: 373, 382, 367, 346


                                    Fenix 2: 424
                                    FR 935: 357, 351, 371, 365, 350
                                    FR 920XT: 379
                                    Non-Baro (Strava): 435, 313, 350, 326, 306, 302, 323, 335, 331, 346, 298, 321, 315, 330, 330, 328, 334, 307

                                    Don’t you agree that Suunto 9 is a clear outlier? Do you think that Suunto 9 results are correct and all others, including A3P, are wrong? I don’t understand why Suunto doesn’t see that as a problem.

                                    I did similar comparisons for other races in which I participated and the results were similar - Suunto 9 is always an outlier on the low end. Since a lot of my running is on a rolling terrain like that, Suunto 9 had consistently low-balled my total ascent by 10-20%.

                                    Dimitrios KanellopoulosD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • stromdiddilyS Offline
                                      stromdiddily Gold Members
                                      last edited by stromdiddily

                                      The glaring bit of evidence for me is if you compare S9B vs non Sony Suuntos. Either every other non Sony equipped Suunto is overstating the value or the S9 values are understated. Just ran a 10mi loop on rolling terrain w my cousin who has a Spartan Sport. Distances were exactly the same (which is super impressive in itself), he had over 100 ft more of climbing than me.

                                      Outside of using ascent/altitude values in races to gage amount of climbs left, this really isn’t that big of a deal. Runalyze takes care of this problem and A3P vs S9B come in about the same after the correction is applied there.

                                      Always carry a flaggon of whiskey for snakebite; and furthermore, always carry a small snake.

                                      User of pretty much every watch since the Ambit 3 Peak. Now back in the family w SV :)

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                                      • Dimitrios KanellopoulosD Offline
                                        Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager @sky-runner
                                        last edited by Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

                                        @sky-runner as you wish to say and believe. But that is not correct as the same software that calculates ascent runs on all models.of SUUNTO the same way.

                                        So changing one would exactly change all. The only added difference on the s9 is recent fused alti retry of multiple times late spring I think.

                                        The same conversation with your previous profile still exists and I advice for the sake of all.of us to continue there, instead of "hijacking ". It gets too clustered to even someone to collect some proper feedback.

                                        Kind reminder as well: If you think that the s9 (or anyone here) measures too low, it’s difficult from this forum to change all the stuff at suunto regarding ascent. So the reminder is about that in the end it’s us just fighting over our opinions and breaking our heads who is right or wrong.

                                        Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                                        Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                                        youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                        https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                        https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                                        stromdiddilyS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                        • stromdiddilyS Offline
                                          stromdiddily Gold Members @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                                          last edited by

                                          @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in Suunto 9 baro very low elevation gain vs other brands:

                                          @sky-runner as you wish to say and believe. But that is not correct as the same software that calculates ascent runs on all models.of SUUNTO the same way.

                                          Interesting, I thought it would differ based on firmware use. I stand corrected.

                                          Always carry a flaggon of whiskey for snakebite; and furthermore, always carry a small snake.

                                          User of pretty much every watch since the Ambit 3 Peak. Now back in the family w SV :)

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                                          • fazelF Offline
                                            fazel Bronze Member
                                            last edited by

                                            So, I’m supposed to run 21 miles of hilly trails on Saturday. Should I wear the Ambit3 Peak and the 9 Baro? Has anyone done a direct comparison?

                                            freeheelerF Fenr1rF 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
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