Is it a navigation BUG .. Distance/ETE/ETA remained empty despite I was not far from the itinery

[Mister PYC]

@isazi
@Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

Is there a way ro rename this post into :

ANGEL MODE Proposal when your wath detect you are out of the route

.
it is definitively not a bug , now I catch the way the watch behave
It’s more a possible missing feature.

Sunday I was thinking it was a bug in my watch because I was surprise that the watch did not compute th einformation toward the ending of the route despite I was no more on it … for me it was just abecoming a computation between 2 gps point

Still this disccussion is super interresting and should be renamed in somethign positive

[isazi]

@mister-pyc said in Is it a navigation BUG .. Distance/ETE/ETA remained empty despite I was not far from the itinery:

@isazi
@Dimitrios Kanellopoulos

Is there a way ro rename this post into :

ANGEL MODE Proposal when your wath detect you are out of the route

I cannot rename posts, you as the original author may, not sure. Although it may not be possible at all.

[Mister PYC]

@isazi

I was looking for this but did not find the option … of course you start to know me and that I’m often blind
I was thinking that you as moderator might have this super power

Let me stil try to search for it

Thanks in any case
These discussions are super interresting as challenging us and get fun to think that there could be some features …

[isazi]

@mister-pyc often forum/discussion systems do not have this function to avoid the situation in which you get lots of upvotes for a topic, then change the name to achieve a different goal. So it may be the case for this forum too.

[Mister PYC]

@isazi

very logical indeed
Unfortunate as my title is not reflecting what I think now and would like to suggest

[Łukasz Szmigiel]

As I said before - automation is good but only if it’s really well designed and here it’s very, very risky as @isazi pointed out.

I think that if you’re preparing for mountaineering having option A/B and C is crucial for survival and relying only on electronics, and especially on automated electronics sounds dangerous to me (but hey, I’m no.1 Deliberative in StrenghtsFinder, so I find dangers everywhere).

I also think that design goes beyond what we see on screen. It needs to adapt to market needs and as we sadly know - people don’t read manuals and even as simple as S line is right now - there are lots of confusing things that either manual doesn’t cover well or most people won’t care anyway. Also - we’re talking about multisports watch, not a specialized tool just for one or two activities (as your ideas @Mister-PYC might be very well relevant for mountaineering).

So - we have different battery modes (with a slightly malfunctioning ETA mode forcing 1s that I hope will be dealt with) and different navigation options - with POIs, routes and breadcrumbs all of which can be switched easily during the activity when needed - which I think is crucial as only the user knows when it’s best to use what.

BTW. You can have like 255 POIs in watch I think? And their icons will be displayed in navigation screen (although without names) when in breadcrumb navigation mode - regardless if routes are enabled or not. This is awesome and if in future it’s possible for the names to be displayed (even short - like first 8 letters) it would be an amazing tool for navigation even without maps.

[Łukasz Szmigiel]

@mister-pyc BTW - since you’ve mentioned that your English is limited:

Check out DeepL - https://www.deepl.com/pl/translator - since you’re writing really long posts, perhaps this AI-powered translator will help you in writing fast drafts in French.

It’s one of the best online translation tools available, I use it for translating blog posts from Polish to English as it saves tons of time.

[Mister PYC]

@łukasz-szmigiel

I will say, you are right on the fact that watch cannot be specialized for a single given activity
but … I hope you will agree with me that the watch becoming silent just because you are at 200 m far from your planned road in the middle of a big mountain place is a matter of sadness … especially when this watch was offering you the capacity to compute distance, ETE, ETA computation toward POI and itinery ending, bearing navigation, altimeter, etc etc

For me having no more any information until and unless I reach by myself back to the road is still strange.

Imagine that WAZE did this to you … as soon as you see a beautiful restaurant jsut at 200 m from from the highway and you decide to brign your wife here for a good dinner, WAZE will have told you “Sorry man, now go by yourself to your destination, and only when you are on it I will tell you how to continue”

Joking of course, a such watch is not WAZE and it’s also good like that as it allow you to activate yoru brain and think which is the most important in mountain.

[Mister PYC]

@łukasz-szmigiel

SUPER MERCI !!!
I will go for it immediatelly

[Łukasz Szmigiel]

@mister-pyc honestly, it doesn’t bother me at all. You’re comparing apples to oranges. As I mentioned in some posts above - S5/9 is not an Android-powered S7 - which has maps and has a way better idea about your surroundings (like Waze does).

How can you compare road navigation that applies different route when you change directions (because it has maps and all the data it needs) with an outdoor navigation with no maps and weather data available?

I think that, perhaps, some of the ideas that you’re proposing - that are related to mountaineering and trekking - could be implemented but they would have to be somehow separated from the defaults. Profiles maybe? Seeing how Suunto tends to built its products - I doubt it.

But hey - there’s Suunto+ - so maybe, maybe, your ideas could be refined and implemented as mountaineering aids S+ screen? I think it would make more sense (in certain applications) than “Safe”. And it seems that S+ is just a right place for it to be. But on the other hand - it’s just one screen (but with plenty of automation in the background available and nobody would be forced to use it by default).

[Mister PYC]

@łukasz-szmigiel said in Is it a navigation BUG .. Distance/ETE/ETA remained empty despite I was not far from the itinery:

nd we

Humm I do not catch where the apple and orange are

There is no need of any map when you have already loaded a GPX into your APP and transfert it into your suunto watch and you follow it.
if you look to my proposal which was made even better by @дима-мельниченко

See this post : https://forum.suunto.com/topic/6751/is-it-a-navigation-bug-distance-ete-eta-remained-empty-despite-i-was-not-far-from-the-itinery/25?_=1626278546397

His suggestion based on my initial remark is really excellent and simple.
when the watch detect you are out of route, then why not to switch to this super good bearing mode where the point to reach could be eitehr the begining of the itinery or its end … straigh direct like you are doing if you activate the bearing mode.

**Why I do not like the idea of having this addign this as a SUUNTO plus screen ??? **
because you can have only one single SUUNTO screen during an exercise and moreover you should decide of it when you start and you cannot change anymore.

@дима-мельниченко proposal better than my initial one : ANGEL MODE

You are no more on yoru planned route, do not worry, an angel is coming to give you some help and telling you how far you are both from your start and end points of your loaded course

[sartoric]

@mister-pyc

Always out of curiosity, I know I’m repeating myself, but … based on your last example/image, would you follow the green or the blue arrow ?

I mean, I’m just trying to see the usefulness (and simplicity of use) of all this, from a user pov.

I would say that something like this would be useful if the only direction I get is the one to the latest point tracked on route, that could be anyway not easily reachable (if I just climbed down some rocky slope).

Of course, without considering that breadcrumb can already bring you there

[Mister PYC]

@sartoric

Hello Sartoric

Coming back to your remark and after having read the much better proposal from @дима-мельниченко than my initial one.

Imagine that in cas of out of route, the watch is now indicating 2 bearing positions as I was suggesting … but not mine, much better :

• the distance, ETE, ETA to POI is shifted to same but toward Course START point (going straight to it)
• the distabce, ETE, ETA to Itiniery remains toward Course END point (going straight to it).

The beauty of his idea is that the watch is now acting in triangulation mode and you can even locate yourself on the map.
You simply use these 2 points that you perfectly knows like if it was 2 summits that you point with a compass … you just put the angle on the paper map and you know perfectly where you are even in a totally foggy weather.

[sartoric]

@mister-pyc said in Is it a navigation BUG .. Distance/ETE/ETA remained empty despite I was not far from the itinery:

The beauty of his idea is that the watch is now acting in triangulation mode and you can even locate yourself on the map.

well … having a gps and a paper map , I would set the watch datum to the map one , so there’s no need to triangulate using a gps, just reading the position on the screen

[Mister PYC]

@sartoric

you forgot the fog

Remember you should think you are in a zero visibility situation.
Otherwise,no need of a such beautiful watch … with one of simple and cheap compass and 2 summits …and that’s it

BTW the SUUNTO compas rocks !!! it is perfectly pointing the north

[sartoric]

@mister-pyc said in Is it a navigation BUG .. Distance/ETE/ETA remained empty despite I was not far from the itinery:

Remember you should think you are in a zero visibility situation.

I hope I can see at least my watch and my map … otherwise I would call the Rescue

[Mister PYC]

@sartoric

And your phone so that you can dial the famous 112

Well I already did interresting mountaining activities whilst the fog came in between, just to give you an idea I’m from Annecy, skiing now in La Clusaz since more than 40 years … my skis know normally each moggle individually … well well well … one day we were going down from l’aiguille in a total foggy situation, 2 tourists who were totally lost asked us where to go to reach the ski ressort, I told them follow us,…
I was 200% sure precisely where I was … came a pylon …
guess what … I knew I should arrive to it … except … it was the one above I was thinking
All this in a ski ressort I know by heart … totally by heart

[Brad_Olwin]

@mister-pyc I have been in multiple white out conditions Ski Mountaineering at high altitude ≥4000m. I am sorry but the last thing I am looking at is my watch. With the wind howling around us and unable to barely tell which way is down, my partner and I would ski together for 20-30m and then stop and again and stop… When necessary we pull out the phone and one of us will check to see if we are on course or near it. I just would not have use for the watch under these conditions, the screen is too small and will not help me to avoid cliffs or avalanches.

[Mister PYC]

@brad_olwin

Humm humm humm do not blame so much your watch to have a too small screen … I also hope one day the 30% of remaining black space will be used by a future model … which I will immediatelly buy (also because I will even see worth than today)

I was many times in similar conditions and in fact the watch was still super interresting to be here. For sure and you are right, it has to be considered as a gadget and not a definitive reliable safety system, still it is a wonderful tool.

For example : when you think the weather may become foggy or white out as you said (btw super nice to discuss with you as I learn new english terms,btw we say the same in french “jour blanc”) before you reach the refuge and still you want to engage the summit … what we generally do, will leave the back packs all together at a certain position that we mark with our watch (it happened that left them in the middle of a glacier), then we do the rest of our climb to summit much faster to still reach it as fast as possible … and if the fog or white day effectively come, we still are safe as we know that the watch will drive us quite preciselly back toward the back packs … of course I agree with you that we do this trick only when we first of all have a good visibility from here to the summit and we see that there is no such cliffs or dangerous crevasses between the back pack and the summit…
Skiing lot of times with guides in chamonix who are friends and quite well known I can insure you that they are using their watch …
What I’m telling you is a true story … meanwhile we were engaging the summit, half of the group was too tired and decided to join directly the refuge … the matter of fact is that, even having done this we arrived before them thanks to the fact in the watch there was the POI of the refuge and some crucial place to reach before … and we were never lost even if we were almost not able to see the beg. of ours skis … when we arrived … there were no others skis outside … so the group which should have arrived before us was lost … the guys were not havign put any POI on their watch and despite they start earlier when the white condition were nort here, they still loose themselves in a much small area than us …

PS : no watch will never avoid avalanches … only you and your caution and knowledged of them and how to stay safe. personnaly I always ski thinking I do not have a DVA … going that way I take strict minimal risks (risk zero never exist) but I’m super hyper cautious … 40 years of ski in deep and steep slopes in Aravis … I have been taken just one time … and I was a young and imature guy at that time

[Brad_Olwin]

@mister-pyc I have been skiing for 60 years, never been hurt and have done a lot of Ski Mountaineering starting in the early to mid 1980s. I have skied on a lot of glaciers and in mountains that do not have glaciers. I do and have done a lot of steep skiing and have a significant amount of avalanche training. So, I stand by what I said as it is my experience. We have few to no refuges in the US. I have never used one.