Unfortunately time to go back to Garmin.

GiPFELKiND

@geolerigolo yes, finally many more voices that finally get to the point that I have already said several times, but am always criticized for it. because we should be patient… People say exactly what bothers you! we need to be heard! Don’t be put off with statements like “we can’t say anything about it” or “an update will come at some point”. ask, if there is no answer ask again about again! We have the right to know when an update is coming, what exactly has been improved in the update and when another update is expected to come! The problem with the contour lines is still not solved! and it’s been months again. It feels like nothing is happening here!

GiPFELKiND

@maszop said in Unfortunately time to go back to Garmin.:

For me as a customer, all this mess and lack of transparency with updates is unacceptable. Especially since they concern many small bugs that should be released on an ongoing basis (if they are ready), without waiting for any major updates that the client has no idea about anyway.

As an example, I will use contour lines on the map, the absence of which is a very important element of maps for me. Developers assured that it was only a temporary removal due to some problems. Months pass and no one publicly discusses this topic. Will they come back? Will I be able to see a larger area on the screen? Does anyone even listen to customers?

And there are dozens of such annoying things.

yes, finally many more voices that finally get to the point that I have already said several times, but am always criticized for it. because we should be patient… People say exactly what bothers you! we need to be heard! Don’t be put off with statements like “we can’t say anything about it” or “an update will come at some point”. ask, if there is no answer ask again about again! We have the right to know when an update is coming, what exactly has been improved in the update and when another update is expected to come! The problem with the contour lines is still not solved! and it’s been months again. It feels like nothing is happening here!

surfboomerang

@GiPFELKiND said in Unfortunately time to go back to Garmin.:

We have the right to know when an update is coming

And this is based on…?

You have bought a product. The manufacturer decides if, when, what and how the device is updated.
The customer can decide if they want to buy the product or not.

Kristin Jensen

@surfboomerang To some extent yes, but if you buy a product that is not working as attended and it is causes to a flaw in the software, you can demand to know when it will be fixed, instead Suunto is silent and don’t even acknowledge that there are big bugs/issues

maszop

@surfboomerang A customer purchasing a given piece of equipment expects it to work properly. Repairing faults and fixing software bugs ASAP is obvious. Well, unless you want to end up like Nokia, Kodak, Olympus and many other stubborn companies.

I hope that Suunto will not follow the path of Chinese manufacturers of cheap electronics, who, instead of supporting, fixing bugs and issuing updates, release ever-slightly newer models, with new bugs, then another model again, and so on. This is the case with cheap phones, tablets, e-book readers and a whole lot of gadgets.

@GiPFELKiND said in Unfortunately time to go back to Garmin.:

@geolerigolo yes, finally many more voices that finally get to the point that I have already said several times, but am always criticized for it. because we should be patient… People say exactly what bothers you! we need to be heard! Don’t be put off with statements like “we can’t say anything about it” or “an update will come at some point”. ask, if there is no answer ask again about again! We have the right to know when an update is coming, what exactly has been improved in the update and when another update is expected to come! The problem with the contour lines is still not solved! and it’s been months again. It feels like nothing is happening here!

because you state that there are many users who are very disappointed with how suunto handles sw releases, support, etc. I think, once and for all, counting all these people could give us a real sense of this dissatisfaction, so I suggest you create a poll. Let’s see how big these numbers are…

maszop

@robis Relying on some forum polls is childish.
The survey may be about a new watch strap color rather than specific, repeatable issues.

It’s hard not to notice certain bugs when you can see with the naked eye that something is working wrong or not working at all.
The survey results do not solve the problems. You can pretend the problem doesn’t exist, but that’s probably not the point.

@maszop said in Unfortunately time to go back to Garmin.:

You can pretend the problem doesn’t exist

I’ve never said that, I talked only about perception, way different…

maszop

@robis But what does such a survey change? Will I feel better and believe that my problems are imaginary?

Brad_Olwin

@geolerigolo Good points!

Brad_Olwin

@wmichi said in Unfortunately time to go back to Garmin.:

@Brad_Olwin You said, you get alerts with your structured workouts created in the Suunto app. Are you talking about production firmware? I have just tried it with my Suunto Race and I don’t get any audible alerts or vibrations when I am outside of the target HR range.

I am talking about the alerts that come with a change, for example in my Tempo 3x10 I had an alert to start, alert for recovery, etc. The S+ screen shows the target for the workout as red and green so easy to see. The OP did not specify target range alerts, I don’t need those and may not want them. I train more by RPE but use the target to see if I am near the range I intend to be.

Brad_Olwin

@Kristin-Jensen said in Unfortunately time to go back to Garmin.:

@geolerigolo Yes you are correct, and i love the look and feel of the Suunto watches, but that is not enough when wanting to take your running seriously
Yes excatly, can’t wait. i have uploaded all my past Suunto activities to my Coros account and have already a full 100 km trainingprogram waiting on me in the Coros Traning Hub

I would be very concerned about loading a training program from a watch and use that to train for an ultra. No stock training plan can provide the appropriate stimuli at the correct time to ensure that you are training to your potential. AI might get us there but not yet since there is debate about using metrics. Besides, who wrote the plan? Does it take into account any of your strengths or weaknesses? Will it help you train mentally? Or help train your gut? I doubt it.
For example, HR in the opinion of many is a poor metric to use for training ultras. The races are so long that HR training is unlikely to achieve the goals you set, especially on longer runs.
Power is not useful either as the terrain and changes in what is under your feet alter power sufficiently it is not useful. Uphill is typically power hiking and downhill is eccentric contractions that power does not even measure.
Pace doesn’t help either.
I had a Garmin for 8 months while training for a 100 mile race. The suggested workouts were completely inadequate to prepare me to race.
I am nearly at 50 ultra races now, just my 2 cents worth.

Brad_Olwin

@maszop said in Unfortunately time to go back to Garmin.:

For me as a customer, all this mess and lack of transparency with updates is unacceptable. Especially since they concern many small bugs that should be released on an ongoing basis (if they are ready), without waiting for any major updates that the client has no idea about anyway.

As an example, I will use contour lines on the map, the absence of which is a very important element of maps for me. Developers assured that it was only a temporary removal due to some problems. Months pass and no one publicly discusses this topic. Will they come back? Will I be able to see a larger area on the screen? Does anyone even listen to customers?

I totally agree on this, even without a release date having the contour lines go away when you were using them without any hint of a change is not helpful. A general idea of when the update will come and an explanation for why the lines are gone along with enhancements would be helpful. I am 100% with you on this.

For small bugs including the ATL/CTL/TSS that affect some, perhaps the fix involves adding new major features. I think it would go a long way if Suunto was willing to state why the correction is not implemented quickly and give some idea what was coming without being absolutely specific.

This is an excellent example of where a little information might go a long way for some including @GiPFELKiND.

@Brad_Olwin said in Unfortunately time to go back to Garmin.:

@geolerigolo Too many times I hear the watch, the watch, the watch with virtually no one commenting on the entire ecosystem. How is the Coros app? Do they have incredible heat maps? Do routes in the map show climbs, descents, grades, etc? Are the training metrics universal as are Suunto metrics partnering with TrainingPeaks? I’ve used the Garmin Connect app and don’t care for it much.
Personally, I don’t think making a comparison only on the hardware is a good idea. Would I like structured workouts WITH ALERTS? Well, we already have those, I get alerts with my structured workouts created in the Suunto app, curious why you do not.
I have no issues with someone preferring another brand, I think it is short sided to simply compare the watches.
Would be good to see your problems on the watch and the basic features you are missing, the one you mentioned is not a problem unless you use a 3rd party to sync structured workouts. I would like alerts on my TP workouts but not a deal breaker.

As for updates, Garmin does not publish new features they are planning. Do you know what is in the next update? I am not discussing the beta, but the next update after that, Garmin does not publish a roadmap, no different than Suunto. Does Coros?

I can’t find it now, but in the past Garmin had a presentation with which features would go each watches and “when” (not exact date).
Most of it, comming from Betas, but yeah I understand your point.

To everyone that is raising their voice about lack of updates of visibility of Suunto, I can only talk about my experience, which, as most moderators share: learn to respect the company’s decision and if it doesn’t match your expectations, seek elsewhere.

From movescount fiasco for ambit users, to not quite find the S9P a watch that was worth its money for my use, I made a 100% switch to garmin (from low end devices as FR45 to 965, from etrex 30x to 1040 solar, scale, etc)
And honestly couldn’t be happier. Basic functions we had on movescount/ambits are present, and I find the support (both firmware and chat/warranty) better. Also, the full ecossystem works (not super neat, but works).
Does it make me a suunto hater now?
No. the app is amazing. I wish more brands put the effort on the app as suunto, and I still love the ambits, and older watches. The new watches continue to look stunning. But is it enough to put 400 or more euros in a Suunto watch when it gets out?
Not yet, first of all because I don’t need it…and for other reasons that me and others have written.
Maybe one day…does it worth to complain? I think not…life is too short to complain, enjoy your watch, and if it gets on your nerves, sell it.

geolerigolo

@André-Faria I mostly agree with you
As I have used different (most) ecosystems and as I would like Suunto to get better, I just shared my opinion on what could be improved and what I personally think are basic things like alerts when doing structured workouts. I consider it info the moderators can then tell to Suunto more directly than we can
Don’t worry, for me the watch is a tool and whatever running watch I have doesn’t change how I feel when I run. I enjoy the running experience, which has been improved with the Suunto Sonics which I find great and nice. I also sometimes run by RPE when I don’t really need any data ^^

GiPFELKiND

@Brad_Olwin said in Unfortunately time to go back to Garmin.:.

This is an excellent example of where a little information might go a long way for some including @GiPFELKiND.

karmazynowycukiereczek

@cosme-costa said in Unfortunately time to go back to Garmin.:

small things that most of them is said that will be solved in the next update

Where I can read about next update? What they will fix?

Elipsus

@karmazynowycukiereczek nothing unified and official yet, but the Suunto devs and testers are writing here and there what is being worked on.
Updates for Suunto watch are coming on a quarterly update, so the next update should be around April.
From what is being gathered around the forum, its mostly bugfixes, Suunto is actively working on :

battery drain problem
missing previous features like weekly recap
1 day offset in the CTL/HRV displayed on the watch vs the app (the watch being one day late)
missing some texts/translation
HR sensor turning off sometimes even while its active
HR sensor turning on sometimes even while its deactivated
probably many more

I dont’ say that all will be fixed, but these are the things on Suunto “todo” list, but i doubt they are all the same priority

Tieutieu

@Elipsus since vertical solar announcement, I put my 2 cents on a sooner update !

thailon

@robis basic functionality work - not enough for 400€ watch imho ;( the most annoying thing is - you don’t know when and what is going to fixed and no response from Suunto here on forum. I don’t think it’s so hard to have fix every month, especially for easy device as watch is.