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GPS offset

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  • E Offline
    EzioAuditore Gold Members @thanasis
    last edited by EzioAuditore 20 Aug 2024, 08:07

    @thanasis without me. I never take my phone when running. I have AWU2 with LTE so for emergencies I am covered 🙂 (of course I run with 2 watches in this case but its more convenient than a phone).

    Suunto watches: Ocean (Sand), Race (Titanium Charcoal), Vertical (Titanium Solar Sand), 9 Baro (Ambassador Edition), Spartan Ultra (Copper Edition), Ambit 2, S6
    Suunto Wing

    E 1 Reply Last reply 20 Aug 2024, 08:09 Reply Quote 0
    • E Offline
      EzioAuditore Gold Members @EzioAuditore
      last edited by EzioAuditore 20 Aug 2024, 08:09

      @EzioAuditore I informed @isazi about one such problem I had with the Race. Maybe get in touch with him and send logs so he can add you to the bug?! (my problem was resolved after hard reset, soft one didn’t work).

      Suunto watches: Ocean (Sand), Race (Titanium Charcoal), Vertical (Titanium Solar Sand), 9 Baro (Ambassador Edition), Spartan Ultra (Copper Edition), Ambit 2, S6
      Suunto Wing

      T 1 Reply Last reply 20 Aug 2024, 08:15 Reply Quote 0
      • T Do not disturb
        thanasis Bronze Member @EzioAuditore
        last edited by 20 Aug 2024, 08:15

        @EzioAuditore thanks
        i don’t know what would a hard reset do as I believe (not sure but it has happened 3 times the same way) the way i mention - synching before the activity in a slighlty different location than the actual start.
        I tend to believe this is related somehow

        (btw i don’t have LTE on my AWU because it’s not supported in Greece so the AWU records the track with the similar challenges as the SV…)

        E 1 Reply Last reply 20 Aug 2024, 08:24 Reply Quote 1
        • E Offline
          EzioAuditore Gold Members @thanasis
          last edited by 20 Aug 2024, 08:24

          @thanasis Understood, but I just wanted to add that I never had the phone with me when running with the Race so the Race was not connected to it. The AWU2 although has quite smooth gps track it always undercuts by a lot in my case. So on a marathon I was almost 1,5km short (same as the Fenix 6x I used to have). The Suunto’s and the FR965 are the best GPS watches I’ve had - agreeing in meters of the distance.

          Suunto watches: Ocean (Sand), Race (Titanium Charcoal), Vertical (Titanium Solar Sand), 9 Baro (Ambassador Edition), Spartan Ultra (Copper Edition), Ambit 2, S6
          Suunto Wing

          T 1 Reply Last reply 20 Aug 2024, 08:30 Reply Quote 0
          • T Do not disturb
            thanasis Bronze Member @EzioAuditore
            last edited by 20 Aug 2024, 08:30

            @EzioAuditore said in GPS offset:

            @thanasis Understood, but I just wanted to add that I never had the phone with me when running with the Race so the Race was not connected to it. The AWU2 although has quite smooth gps track it always undercuts by a lot in my case. So on a marathon I was almost 1,5km short (same as the Fenix 6x I used to have). The Suunto’s and the FR965 are the best GPS watches I’ve had - agreeing in meters of the distance.

            in my case…with such a terrible offset i doubt the result is anywhere near the real distance . when it works, it works well but when it does that, it’s obvious that the metrics are not correct

            E 1 Reply Last reply 20 Aug 2024, 08:33 Reply Quote 0
            • E Offline
              EzioAuditore Gold Members @thanasis
              last edited by 20 Aug 2024, 08:33

              @thanasis yes. That’s why I sent logs and reset my watch since I was not used to such bad track with it.

              Suunto watches: Ocean (Sand), Race (Titanium Charcoal), Vertical (Titanium Solar Sand), 9 Baro (Ambassador Edition), Spartan Ultra (Copper Edition), Ambit 2, S6
              Suunto Wing

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • I Offline
                isazi Moderator
                last edited by 20 Aug 2024, 08:50

                I had the issue twice with the latest firmware, during the same trip, both times it was the first activity in a new location (first location, a thousand kilometers away than the last one, second location, few tens of kilometers away from the last one). It was during the same trip that I experienced also the battery drain 🙂

                Since then (first two weeks of July), no offsets.

                Watch: Suunto Vertical Ti

                Blog: isazi's home

                T 1 Reply Last reply 20 Aug 2024, 09:28 Reply Quote 2
                • T Do not disturb
                  thanasis Bronze Member @isazi
                  last edited by 20 Aug 2024, 09:28

                  @isazi said in GPS offset:

                  I had the issue twice with the latest firmware, during the same trip, both times it was the first activity in a new location (first location, a thousand kilometers away than the last one, second location, few tens of kilometers away from the last one). It was during the same trip that I experienced also the battery drain 🙂

                  Since then (first two weeks of July), no offsets.

                  did you carry your phone with you during the excercise ?

                  I 1 Reply Last reply 20 Aug 2024, 09:34 Reply Quote 0
                  • I Offline
                    isazi Moderator @thanasis
                    last edited by 20 Aug 2024, 09:34

                    @thanasis yes

                    Watch: Suunto Vertical Ti

                    Blog: isazi's home

                    T 1 Reply Last reply 20 Aug 2024, 09:53 Reply Quote 0
                    • T Do not disturb
                      thanasis Bronze Member @isazi
                      last edited by 20 Aug 2024, 09:53

                      @isazi in my case, carrying the phone with me never creates an issue which led me believe it is related to the AGPS …

                      Ł 1 Reply Last reply 20 Aug 2024, 11:28 Reply Quote 0
                      • Ł Offline
                        Łukasz Szmigiel @thanasis
                        last edited by 20 Aug 2024, 11:28

                        @thanasis AGPS is deployed to your phone during the synchronization. Once per day. It then needs 15 minutes to unpack the data, and during that time AGPS is unavailable to the watch.

                        When the watch is getting a fix using AGPS data, it’s an approximation because it relies partly on the data provided via AGPS, not the satellites. Typically, the offset is present for the first 15 minutes of a workout when the watch is receiving the current almanac and when the workout was started right away.

                        AGPS should be fresh every day if your watch has a constant connection to Suunto App and the phone is online.

                        There is also FusedSpeed at play - my observations lead me to believe that when abruptly changing directions, an offset may occur when the position isn’t perfect and the speed is too fast to make a correction. This can be seen for running, when running straight and then changing direction 90 deg. It can often stay offset unless the speed drops or there’s some significant change of direction. My understanding is that the offset needs to be there if the speed is being adjusted regardless of GPS data for the distance and speed to match.

                        S9PP 2.43.12

                        E T 2 Replies Last reply 20 Aug 2024, 11:37 Reply Quote 2
                        • E Offline
                          EzioAuditore Gold Members @Łukasz Szmigiel
                          last edited by 20 Aug 2024, 11:37

                          @Łukasz-Szmigiel Nice explanation, thnx. What is not fully clear to me is why only suunto devices have this offset? Fusedspeed? I never had something similar on the FR965 or the AWU2 (or the S9Baro 🙂 )

                          Suunto watches: Ocean (Sand), Race (Titanium Charcoal), Vertical (Titanium Solar Sand), 9 Baro (Ambassador Edition), Spartan Ultra (Copper Edition), Ambit 2, S6
                          Suunto Wing

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • T Do not disturb
                            thanasis Bronze Member @Łukasz Szmigiel
                            last edited by thanasis 20 Aug 2024, 11:59

                            Hi @Łukasz-Szmigiel . Thanks for your answer .
                            I am not sure of what this really means actually in terms of how to have a better outcome .
                            My take is :
                            I synch the watch in morning before exercising but wait 15min to unpack before starting but I will need to leave my phone at various occasions .
                            Some concerns :

                            • Let’s assume that I need to do that which is really not very efficient and I haven’t seen any such a suggestion anywhere else I think . (and I wasn’t doing it either with the ambit 3 peak nor with 9peak but did encounter offsets with them at times )

                            • Having an offset while having a lock on the satellites is quite strange … why wouldn’t the watch indicate the lack of the gnss signal ?

                            Ł E 2 Replies Last reply 20 Aug 2024, 13:32 Reply Quote 0
                            • Ł Offline
                              Łukasz Szmigiel @thanasis
                              last edited by 20 Aug 2024, 13:32

                              @thanasis you can:

                              • Look into the watch settings prior to your workout to confirm that the AGPS is actually valid, and with the current date;
                              • Check if you’re using all GNSS systems or just GPS (you should be using all GNSS systems for the best accuracy);
                              • Make sure that you’re using the best GPS settings (Performance);
                              • Wait a little longer, while stationary, after achieving a fix, before hitting “Start”.

                              Carrying a phone with you should have no influence on the GPS accuracy in your watch.

                              @EzioAuditore, I really don’t know for sure, but as far as I understand how FusedSpeed works - this makes sense. If you want to have correct time and distance while using accelerometer alongside GPS, the recorded track would have to be influenced. I’ve seen this behavior in S5 as well.

                              S9PP 2.43.12

                              T 1 Reply Last reply 20 Aug 2024, 15:36 Reply Quote 1
                              • T Do not disturb
                                thanasis Bronze Member @Łukasz Szmigiel
                                last edited by 20 Aug 2024, 15:36

                                @Łukasz-Szmigiel ok thanks . Let’s see but the AGPs seems to be updated , I believe there is no gnss settings in the newer devices (only set up by accuracy settings which I have at best ) and I typically wait 1 minute to get a lock . Anyway I am a bit disappointed but let’s see

                                Ł 1 Reply Last reply 20 Aug 2024, 19:49 Reply Quote 0
                                • Ł Offline
                                  Łukasz Szmigiel @thanasis
                                  last edited by 20 Aug 2024, 19:49

                                  @thanasis said in GPS offset:

                                  I typically wait 1 minute to get a lock

                                  You do this regardless of green arrow, or you wait a whole minute until green arrow appears?

                                  S9PP 2.43.12

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • E Offline
                                    enneo Bronze Member @thanasis
                                    last edited by 20 Aug 2024, 21:40

                                    Hi @thanasis, I had similar issues with the Race. It seems to me that the watch is mostly wrong on the altitude side (possibly relying too much on the barometer?) hence the triangulation is pointing in an odd location. When the data fusion algorithm is finally able to converge to the correct altitude, the position on the map gets fixed as well.

                                    At least this is my feeling as user, without knowing the exact implementation.

                                    Ambit 3
                                    9 Baro
                                    Race Ti

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                                    • D Offline
                                      Dimitrios Kanellopoulos Community Manager
                                      last edited by 21 Aug 2024, 06:38

                                      Imo. This happens when the initial fix is not well. Let it soak for gps for 2 mins.

                                      Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
                                      Creator of Quantified-Self.io
                                      youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                      https://instagram.com/dimitrioskanellopoulos
                                      https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105

                                      E T 2 Replies Last reply 21 Aug 2024, 06:52 Reply Quote 1
                                      • E Offline
                                        EzioAuditore Gold Members @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                                        last edited by 21 Aug 2024, 06:52

                                        @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos In my case I’ve tried to wait even more than 5min after the icon went green but again I had the drifts 😞 (It only got resolved after hard reset)

                                        Suunto watches: Ocean (Sand), Race (Titanium Charcoal), Vertical (Titanium Solar Sand), 9 Baro (Ambassador Edition), Spartan Ultra (Copper Edition), Ambit 2, S6
                                        Suunto Wing

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • T Do not disturb
                                          thanasis Bronze Member @Dimitrios Kanellopoulos
                                          last edited by 21 Aug 2024, 07:32

                                          @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos i still think it’s something with the process i described:

                                          Synch the watch (which also update the gps…), enter the activity menu in one location …. Move to a bit different place (like go down the stairs to the street) , wait 1 min (the green arrow appears) , start the activity… there is an offset…

                                          I believe there is a gps fix issue as you mention which is causing it , but is that the device is trying to calculate something based on other factors and creates this offset? i don’t know but it is like a pattern to me

                                          T 1 Reply Last reply 8 Dec 2024, 07:16 Reply Quote 0
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