How is the 9PP positioned with the new arrival of the RaceS?
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@raceaddict for me is also around a full week, without AOD but with outdoor activities.
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MIP Small
9PPMIP Large
VerticalAMOLED Small
Race SAMOLED Large
RaceAlso, 9PP being more of a proof of concept in terms of new hardware and software in the nearly identical body as 9P (I think it should be rather called 9P v2 or mark II, etc.)
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@krakra well true, personal preference. I am hoping for the improved turn-by-turn notifications instead (coming with the next update a little, as i heard?🥳).
All the Garmin people i know even have reroutable maps, but as soon as we get lost they get out their smartphone as well
just more convenient on a bigger screen … -
@wurzlsepp I wouldn’t trust OSM for automatic routing somewhere in the outdoors without seeing a bigger picture first.
There are places well mapped and with accurate data, and others where it’s so-so at best.
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@Łukasz-Szmigiel exactly my thoughts ! Knowing how to read a map and being able to draw his own route is the best way imho.
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I have a Q&A with Suunto that’s in the editing phase and publishing next week, but I’ll offer up a sneak peek here, since one of the questions I asked them specifically pertains to this thread:
**Me: What does the launch of the Race S mean for the 9 Peak Pro, which was technically the first watch launched with Suunto’s modern UI, even if it doesn’t have all the bells and whistles of the Vertical and Race lineup?
Suunto:** "The 9PP right now retails for $349, which is the same price point that the Race S is sliding in at. So it’ll soon get a price adjustment. We are still figuring out exactly how aggressive that price adjustment will be for this market.
"We have to look at what our building material costs are on something like that. And we have to remember that once upon a time, that was a $600 watch. So we’re getting closer and closer to it no longer being a profitable franchise. It’s still in the line because it’s on essentially the same operating system as the Vertical and Race, but it is the only watch in our current lineup that’s still single band. So that’s something to keep in mind too.
“Race S is more or less designed to replace it and modernize it. But with the 9 Peak Pro being a MIP display, it may still have a place in the line through the end of the year or even longer. There’s just a matter of whether it can be engineered now with some new supply chain options that we have and can it be sold profitably at a price point that’s in the mid-$200s? If so, then maybe it has a new place to live for at least a little while longer, so that there is another MIP option in the lineup besides just Vertical.”
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@TrailEyes thank you for insights
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@TrailEyes Thanks. Very interesting. As good as S9pp materials are I thought they had already reached their floor price.
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@raceaddict Considering how low was the S9b titanium at the end of is merchand life, I’m not surprised.
It also confirmes that Suunto commercial strategy has changed :- from “low volume” with almost only high grade products
to - strong range with also very attractive products to regain market places and bet on volume sales
IMHO the range is now very interesting and rationnal, providing products for every customer : from top products made in finland that will satisfy suunto historic target to top spect/price ratio product. Clever !
- from “low volume” with almost only high grade products
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@Tieutieu Yes but S9B was with old components. Not so much for S9PP sharing the same platform as all the other watches of the range.
But aside from a strategy change and I agree with you on this, it could be also the results of the restart of price war after years of components shortage. -
I think Suunto do still need a product in their range that’s around the €240 - €275 price. Whether the 9PP can be sold at this price is questionable but regardless of whether it’s the 9PP or another new model I think it’s important for Suunto for 2 related reasons.
I’m specifically thinking of the entry level runner and the new-to-suunto mid-level runner.
While Suunto isn’t going to be competitive on features against Garmin your entry level runner - park run enthusiast, local running club newbie etc. - doesn’t want all the features, might be intimidated by it all and just wants a watch they feel is approachable. Suunto is perfectly placed here.
The new-to-suunto runner is more likely to know a bit about the features they want but looks at garmin’s prices and needs a sit down due to shock. Garmin has attempted to mitigate this with the Forerunner 165 but there are basic features lacking and the step up in price to the 265 or even the 255 is eye-watering.
Both these types of runner are likely to look at Coros, Amazfit etc. for around the €220 mark and then realise that the Apple Watch SE is only a little more - but then the battery life isn’t great. But there’s a mental barrier for many people stepping up into the €300+ price range. So I think the ~€260 price point is a space Suunto should try and occupy to encourage new users to the Suunto community. This is where the 5P used to sit.
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@far-blue I agree. I thought a full plastic version of the Race S to fight against the pace3 should fit this entry level need. But to fight against smart watches and Garmin sport watches in this price point, the need for music and contactless payment and more health oriented data is increasingly more important and it’s not easy for Suunto.
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I’ve had my S9PP for 1.5yrs now and it’s been brilliant for what I mainly do - running and long ultramarathon races.
If the Vertical had been available at the time I would have bought one instead, but only because I compete in 100hr+ races - a niche within a niche - at which point the activity memory in the S9PP becomes limiting. But as a watch for running 100-200 mile races it is very good - battery life approaching 50hrs with HR off, regardless of using navigation on/off or sunlight conditions, very light and comfortable to wear, accurate and reliable.
But it doesn’t surprise me that it appears Suunto are planning to discontinue it after running down stock (their UK webshop has only had two of the original variants for some time now). I can’t see it competing in a marketplace where watches are seen as outdated and inferior if they don’t have the latest “essential” feature (e.g. multi-band), unless reduced to an uneconomic price point.
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@raceaddict I’m not so sure about music and contactless. I would suggest most sports watch users do still carry their phone with them, they just have it in a pocket so it’s accessible for contactless and controllable via the watch for music controls. Certainly in the market space I discussed above. Honestly, if you want contactless without a phone, just carry your bank card with you - they are hardly bulky! Maybe, one day, when all the actual activity-related features have been delivered
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@TrailEyes Thanks for that insight.
Personally, the S9PP is still the best watch for me out of their current line up. The size and material quality allow me to wear it everywhere, and I prefer the MIPS screen. Although maps would be nice, they are not mandatory for me.
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@Greennorth same, the size and the screen are awesome. I just wish the extra straps weren’t that expensive. But that applies for the straps in general, not related to 9PP.
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Debating if i should take new s9pp titanium for 270€. Never tried maps so not sure if i need them or not. Probably would use suunto app still due to easier zooming and viewing bigger map on iphone. Or maybe just go after vertial solar and forget about this old model. I love smaller size factor, all metal build.
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@krakra Where is a new S9PP Titanium available for 270€? Even for a S9PP Steel this would be a great price…
I think about replacing my S9P with a S9PP because of the newer software. But the quality issue with the HR sensor (bubbles) doesn’t sound tempting
So maybe it will be a Race S. More features and no known quality problems (so far) -
@VoiGAS said in How is the 9PP positioned with the new arrival of the RaceS?:
But the quality issue with the HR sensor (bubbles) doesn’t sound tempting
This isn’t the norm
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@Łukasz-Szmigiel If this issue is corrected for newer watches and the price will go down to about 250€ like expected it would be a good argument for the S9PP over the Race S. Together with the build quality and smaller size.
About the battery life: Is the Race S better than S9PP after the last update? Before it was a draw on Single Channel exercise, but now the Race S got a little extra battery lifetime
