Suunto ZoneSense
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@claudiotereso @chee-ee-jordan-lo You should read the information or watch the videos before posting. The DDFA values require 10-15 min to establish baselines so values will not show. From an actual beta tester….
Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing
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@Brad_Olwin you should read the thread more carefully. The original issue he was talking about was the zonesense not working in the suunto app. Which is what im referencing.
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I don’t recognize the problems some folks seem to be having. It’s been working great so far and really looking forward to more workouts with the belt
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@Brad_Olwin I know that DDFA doesn’t have values in the first 10 minutes.
But i am showing is the heart rate. The heart rate is always counted.On suunto App I have all the heart rate correct from the beginning and no zonesense info, but when exported to strava we lost the first 10 minutes of heart rate that, as far as I understand, is independent from zonesense.
the export mixed them …
UPDATE!
There is another screen on suunto app that doesn’t show the first 10 minutes of Heart Rate
Does this makes sense?
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@claudiotereso
Maybe worth opening a separate post for such bugs, it begins to be a mess
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And on my android app, first 10min of HR are there for last run even with ZS
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@Mff73 I am extremely dubious about Zonesense.
The data seems to be mostly garbage sadly.
I have done 6 or 7 runs with it now and it seems to lack credibility.
The anaerobic threshold calculation is clearly nonsense!
Polar H10 used
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@cumbrian-runner Hard to say, are you sure your heartrate zones are correct? Or was it really such a hard run, mainly vo2max?
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@cumbrian-runner Hmm, I agree with @VoiGAS. You might want to have a look at your HR zones. It is of course possible to run for ~16 minutes in Z5, but you would probably be completely gassed at that point. Z5 is usually your all-out sprint HR. And your settings for Z2 through Z4 are pretty narrow.
You reached 178 bpm during that workout, which is above your max HR setting of 175. For me, I almost never reach my max HR, maybe once a year. Even then, I set my max HR a few beats higher knowing I could potentially go a little harder.
So if your max HR is closer to 180+, then the ZS measured anaerobic threshold of 171 makes some sense. Your setting of 152 looks low to me. These are just the observations of a stranger across the Internet.
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@claudiotereso Could be a Strava issue. Good to open a separate post.
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@VoiGAS Yes, based on my MaxHR which is correct within they are correct. I cannot sustain 175 by more than 5 seconds, anything over is literally a 1 second reading.
I am in my mid 50s and have tracked its decline from 183mm over the last few years.
It wasn’t really a hard run. Its less than 5 miles with about 20% of my usual elevation profile. Typical runs are 3x longer at similar HR.
(Average hr was 78% of max)
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@cumbrian-runner said in Suunto ZoneSense:
@Mff73 I am extremely dubious about Zonesense.
The data seems to be mostly garbage sadly.
I have done 6 or 7 runs with it now and it seems to lack credibility.
The anaerobic threshold calculation is clearly nonsense!
Polar H10 used
I agree, your zones are way off. Zonesense appears much closer. Zone 5 is maximal and very difficult to maintain. Z4/5 interface is anaerobic threshold. About as hard as you can go for 20 min. You should try a Cooper test.
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@duffman19 Even if my MaxHR was 180mm, then the anaerobic threshold is still FAR too high.
I have not hit 180mm in over 3 years at max efforts.
Pay attention to how the ZoneSense declined on the biggest effort. The higher my HR goes, Zonesense goes in the opposite direction.
I ran with Coros too and both use very similar zones.
If conventional Suunto and Coros zones show correct and as as expected realistic HR and Zonesense for Anaerobic is WAY out of line for what is possible, then to me the evidence I have suggests Zonesense is ID’ing anaerobic efforts wrongly, not the reverse.
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@cumbrian-runner You did hit 178 during that workout. Was that an all-out effort for you? If so, then your max HR is probably close to 180+.
@cumbrian-runner said in Suunto ZoneSense:
I cannot sustain 175 by more than 5 seconds
Correct. You should not be able to sustain your max HR for any length of time. It is the absolute highest possible reading you could get from an absolute all-out effort. As @Brad_Olwin suggested, you may want to try a Cooper test.
@cumbrian-runner said in Suunto ZoneSense:
Pay attention to how the ZoneSense declined on the biggest effort. The higher my HR goes, Zonesense goes in the opposite direction.
I have noticed the exact same behavior. However, it has been pointed out here and in the ZS documentation that ZS does not work well for shorter, high intensity intervals. It needs time to settle or calibrate for each effort, even after the initial 10-15 minute warm-up period. I’ve been doing a lot of half mile hill repeats lately and my graphs match yours. When I start the uphill, ZS takes a big dip down into aerobic even though my HR is rising drastically. By the time I reach the top of the hill/interval 4 minutes later, ZS has “caught up” and shows a peak of VO2 max sometimes.
I think the takeaway is that ZS is best for long endurance activities where our zones may drift due to variables that cannot be measured by hear rate alone.
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well long endurance efforts is literally what I do, and I have yet to have sensible results out of those either as a Day 1 Zonesense adopter.
My MaxHR has not gone to 180mm since 2021 - either you trust me on this or you do not. But even if it was 180 bpm then 171bpm is way to high which is the point everyone is missing.
At max absolute top speed / top effort which is typically on a parkrun I might hit 175bpm for a few seconds then immediately fade.
I will adjust my MaxHR to 177 but that wont influence Zonesense, in this case 171 ( 98%) would display as 171 (97%) instead. 171 is not credible at 175, 177 or 180bpm
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@cumbrian-runner said in Suunto ZoneSense:
either you trust me on this or you do not
Of course you know yourself best. Max HR is somewhat irrelevant anyway. Lactate (anaerobic) threshold is the more important figure, which should be set as the upper limit of your Zone 4. Judging from the few charts you’ve posted, it looks like your threshold is probably higher than you have it set. Maybe not 171 high, but something close to that would spread out your zones more evenly.
I have yet to adjust my zones based on ZS recommendations because I’m still trying to figure out which of my activities it is effective for. And, honestly, I’ll probably not use it much at all since I don’t like wearing an HR belt
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@cumbrian-runner of course we trust you about your experience, but you should also trust the people here.
Max Heartrate is something a lot of people will seldom experience because its a extreme situation. You will only reach it with in very, very hard sessions no one normally is doing.
Thats why defining zones based on max HR is not advised, better is to do some of the tests to calculate your threshold heartrate -
I can confirm that ZoneSens is not working with Polar Verity Sense but… it is not working with Polar H9 chest strap!!![text alternatywny]
PS. Probably it is not RR problem - it works with H10 but not with h9:
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@aslysz I have an H9 and it works just fine, so might be a different issue there.
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@The_77 Thanks.
This is strange, because as you can see HR was still working, and ZoneSense was displaying the message “Waiting for data…”
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@aslysz are you sure the HR data were coming from the H9 and not your watch?
The sensor pairing is a bit convoluted, your Suunto only knows a single sensor device of each type. If you had (like me) paired a POlar Verity Sense to your watch and switched to (I.e. paired to the watch) another external HR sensor (H10) to try out the new ZoneSense, your watch will show it is waiting to connect to an external sensor but it is not telling you which one.
The only way to be sure is to unpair and pair the sensor that you want before the run, but really be sure it is the only active sensor around.
Suunto really should allow naming of sensors to know WHICH heart rate metering device is the current one (it may not be the one you assume). I noticed a few times that although previously the wait screen indicated it had connection to all sensors in the sports profile, in my run suddenly the watch‘s HR metering was active and measuring …mostly my cadence.
