Clearly there are no swimmers really training with the V2 or R2 (even after Q1 update) come on your all pretending...
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So that’s the clickbait, thx for reading. But (lotsa 'buts in this post), honestly, I just swapped out my Garmin Epix2 and jumped on the Suunto wagon after the Q1 release announcements about swimming.
As far as I can find, there are little to no details on how ‘pool’ swimming works and how it could work with structured training workloads from - let’s say - TrainingPeaks.
The manual lap button update = amazing, but honestly - table stakes
The connection to TrainingPeaks = amazing, but honestly - table stakes
2 major tick boxes.But… help my ignorance or simple oversight.
A structured workout ( especially in a pool) works when you know that during a rest, say 15, 20 seconds, you know what’s up next. So you can prepare for it. I was able to find a countdown to the next set, but the ‘what’ is a mystery (see pics 1-2)
The repetition of the current segment on a set (e.g., 15 sec rest) is clear, but why is it duplicated in the ‘next’ detail, and why, when set to metric, does “.01 mile” appear? Suunto, does anyone swim in Finland, whats up here?
FWIW, Garmin really nailed the data screens for swimming. I respect that Suunto is otw to get there, but please, Suunto smart people, clue me into what I am missing. I’d love to find out I’m totally off base and the simple capabilities are there, I’m just the noob missing them:
1: current interval time (yes) + current interval distance (yes) + current interval (e.g. 2/4)
2: interval complete - rest time shows (yes) what’s next???
3: text for current interval somewhere to know what you’re currently swimming (yes, maybe, but limited ot 10 characters on top of the screen?)
Just pretend you could set the screens to start with that. Help please
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@Webby-Skymaster Unfortunately, Suunto isn’t designed for pool swimmers. There’s still a lot of work to be done in this area, but for now, other sports are the priority. Too bad for you if swimming is your only sport or your main discipline.
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@Ars-Vitae I can appreciate that, but — the goal of cramming more and more sports to control some narrative about the value of a product’s features (I’m a product guy - so live this every day) is a disservice to your customers/users. The fact that there are ~100 “sports”, why? Then 90+% are half-arse attempts at supremacy in some Hunger Games-like marketing push rather than service and value to the user. I get it - but - I can’t accept “Suunto isn’t designed for pool swimmers” if the brand publishes specific feature updates and messaging around said sport, it’s invested resources and should support the sport.
The watch is capable, and I do more than just swim, but FFS, a new icon and name that utilizes the exact feature set scores of times repeatedly to infer capability, is not a great approach.
So, in appreciation of the “other sports,” and your assumptions that’s all I do, the brand could simply acknowledge the realities rather than hide behind a lack of information.
Don’t get me wrong, I really like my V2, but ignorance is not bliss.
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@Webby-Skymaster which screen with the “next” is this?
Is it synced from another software? Does it maybe depend on the api used for syncing?
Sorry, just guessing here as I have not seen those screens before -
@Webby-Skymaster The issue with these screens is not only for swimmers, the whole structured workout thing is bad for even basic interval running, and i can’t understand how this was deemed “sufficient” when developed.
Even, I, a complete newbie to sport smartwatches, and , at the time, a complete newbie to “training” , immediately had the same remarks as you the first time I used it.Like you said, but for running :
- You have no way of knowing what’s next
- you don’t know how many reps you are in (for example in 10 times x30sec, its nice to know if you are on repeat 8 or 9…)
- and the fields are way, way too small and even the text is too small to be usable while doing HIIT.
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@Elipsus I do have the number of repetition in the structured workout.
Also when I create one, the character number is limited to what actually fits on the screen.
So I suspect the screens in the first post here are from some 3rd party…?
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@Egika My bad, I have a 9 peak pro and I assumed it was the same for all Suunto Watches ^^
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HI @egika
The screens I shared are what was presented to me.
No 3rd party or personal alterations.
The structured workout was synced from TrainingPeaks.What I struggle with is that the sport is designed for intervals (I do hear the noise re. intervals with Sunnto), but I’m surprised that the bugs or issues here are so glaring. The ‘next’ would be to have simple QA testing scripts, usually written by a product owner or segment owner who understands the sport.
My question really is: why is ‘next’ presenting ‘now’ as duplicating information, and why is the interval-defined step lost?
All in all, I get the challenges with this. I’ll just swim with my Garnin and train all other sports with my V2. I’m a fan boy. Just hate laziness when it comes to product specifications that clearly has/had a roadmap and implementation plan.
cheers
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@Webby-Skymaster I love my swimming, pool, lake, sea, I don’t care: just let me in the water! I’ve dabbled in all of the watches over the years. Here’s my take:
- Garmin + their pool belt is great for recovery metrics afterwards, but it’s a faff and I’m not sure it’s worth it. Their recent problems around distance tracking in a pool (their support told me I swim too fast; I’m really not that fast) is woeful.
- Apple: great for distance in the pool, eh for HR, but at least they reject bad data aggressively.
- Suunto: sure whatever. It’s been a sorry state since the hallowed era of the Ambit 3 and teaching it my swimming style.
- Form: and done. Take all the other swimming trackers, pop them in your locker, and accept this is the way. I know, it’s not integrated into any other system, but it’s so good I don’t care. HR is spot-on, distance is spot-on, workout generation is a delight, their training plans the same. Their two weaknesses are the OHR in cold water (12° and below) is obviously innacurate due to vasoconstriction, even over a 45m swim, and… there’s another but it escapes me. Oh! Field of view. If I’m somewhere pretty, I’m less likely to use them, but that’s rare.
No Suunto integration but it’s just a determined day’s vibe code away, and there’s already some promising RE work available.
Wishing you the peace in accepting no watch manufacturer cares about swimming enough to put the time in to solve the very complex problem of the last 20% of implementation, and the flexibility to move to the Form side.
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@Ze-Stuart how are the Form glasses in open water? Because I know the Holoswim are not good at all. It’s nearly impossible to see anything.
The other thing is the subscription, which is an ugly thing.
There’s no integration with S+, as far as I know.
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@dreamer_ I find them excellent: my experience of them has been a rare tech product that actually delivers on its promises.
I hear you on disliking the sub, but this is one I pay happily. They backport every feature possible to their earliest goggles, which is wild, and continue to add stable - stable!!! - new features that improve my swimming markedly.
A good example is their equivalent of grade-adjusted pace (shows you your equivalent pool speed when in open water) and swim straight. When swimming in water with very low visibility (English channel/La Manche), where I can see to my elbow on a good day, and am being tossed around by chop, it makes the logistical side (navigation, effort management) a lot easier.
https://zulusierra.co
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@Ars-Vitae, però peccato perché oltre ad i puri nuotatori, io come molti altri pratichiamo triatlon ,e siamo tutti in difficoltà perché effettivamente manca un approfondimento nel nuoto e ribadisco;che sarebbe necessario anche poter avere nelle impostazioni “BPM specifiche” anche per il nuoto come quelle della bici e corsa.
ma se per ora noi acquatici ed ibridi dovremo adattarci speriamo sia ancora per poco e ci diano un contentino
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@dreamer_ it’s all good.
I’ve tried them all.Living in Australia for the past 7 years, open water ocean swimming is good for all devices.
There is a large population that trains with intervals and structured workouts (basically every competitive swimmer on the planet) that either count in their heads, look at a clock on the wall, and a whiteboard workout. Or use Garmin watches because they actually nailed the UX, no longer need a HR band, and the structured intervals are clear and accurate.
Apple Watch. No interest.
My move to Suunto was in response to the latest Q1 update and marketing that says they fixed swimming intervals (e.g., manual laps). Well, no need to rehash the intervals. and finally introduced broadcast HR (which really doesn’t work with bike computers yet).
Form, I was an early adopter here, too. It works, but (no need to elaborate), and the subscription is too much. The new open water straight line GPS is cool tho.
So, onwards. Hopefully others will learn from my experiences and short-circuit the loss of time screwing around as I did.
Cheers. -
@Ze-Stuart @Webby-Skymaster thank you so much to both. Really interesting.
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@Webby-Skymaster said in Clearly there are no swimmers really training with the V2 or R2 (even after Q1 update) come on your all pretending...:
no longer need a HR band
Until you compare the signal quality between the wrist, moving, under tension, in water and a chest strap, especially one held in place by a wetsuit, there’s a reason the optical HR plot is so smooth. Which if that’s fine for you, that’s fine, but I really don’t like the quality of the data from it. I find it very disheartening when Garmin (or, insert watch brand here) has said I’ve had an easy swim and it’s been the kind where I feel on the edge of drowning it’s so hard.
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@Ze-Stuart personalmente o very sense polar nelle tempie o sensore sotto lycra e tutto è veritiero al polso viene da ridere…
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@Webby-Skymaster BTW, I have a similar sensation since I bought the Vertical 2 after all the navigation marketing because of the Q1. They did a nice job but there are several issues and bugs, and while there are nice things, navigation is not that good as advertised (in my opinion).
I opened a thread with several things. There’s also a very nice one about the issues of the Climb Guidance 3.0
