Serious BUG in calories, PTE, recovery

[Tomas5]

Hello, yesterday i found serious bug. Measured values are very incorrect.

I started easy excercise with suunto 5, WHR only. After 7 minutes i was interupted so i paused activity, took watch off wrist and placed them on table. After few time (maybe 30 minutes, not sure how long it was) i realised i will not be able to finish excercise soon so i came back and stoped paused activity. Watch measured only 7 minuts of activity with HR avg 84, max 106 but calculated PTE 3,7 and 7h recovery and 325 kcal.

Later that day a did rest of this excercise. It was new started activity, it was almost 15 minutes, HR avg 95, max 117, and PTE 1,2 and 0h recovery and 123 kcal. These measurements looks real but previous interupted excercise is way off real values.

IT’S SOME SERIOUS BUG IN CALCULATION.

I think that when i paused activity and placed them on table, watch stoped time recording, but PTE calories and recovery time was calculated even from time when they was placet on table.

Same values are show on watch itself.

[surfboomerang]

@tomas5

Just kidding
I think Suunto never expected this situation.

[Aleksander H]

@surfboomerang said in Serious BUG in calories, PTE, recovery:

@tomas5

Just kidding
I think Suunto never expected this situation.

Oh, that feels so much like one of my previous assignments at work

[Tomas5]

@surfboomerang do you mean that they should’t expect person to pause activity and than after some time end activity ? I started activity, after 7 minutes, because I was interrupted, I paused activity thinking I will come back soon. After, when I realized that I will not come back soon, I stopped activity entirely. Why PTE is calculated from time when it was paused ? What of this behavior is not expected ?

[Aleksander H]

@tomas5 said in Serious BUG in calories, PTE, recovery:

@surfboomerang do you mean that they should’t expect person to pause activity and than after some time end activity ? I started activity, after 7 minutes, because I was interrupted, I paused activity thinking I will come back soon. After, when I realized that I will not come back soon, I stopped activity entirely. Why PTE is calculated from time when it was paused ? What of this behavior is not expected ?

Yeah, sorry. That was programming humor. I agree that this does look like a bug.

[surfboomerang]

@tomas5 I don’t think pausing and resuming is the problem in this one, but taking it off your wrist while HR was on.
Although I have never tested that

[Tomas5]

@aleksander-h No need to apologize, I am programmer too and I understand this joke, but I am not aware that i did something not expected, because pause of activity is well documented function. When I looked closely on JSON from QS i can see that activity recored has correct time 446seconds, and correctly there is 446 records for hearth beats. All time it was paused is cropped away (maybe by watch, maybe by QS, not sure). But only calculated values as PTE, Calories are incorrectly high calculated, maybe from time it was paused?

{
   "name":"2021-04-18T14:31:09.000Z",
   "description":"SM systém",
   "privacy":"private",
   "startDate":1618756269000,
   "endDate":1618756715000,
   "stats":{
      "Heart Rate Zone Five Duration":0,
      "Pause Time":0.004000000000019099,
      "Distance":0,
      "Activity Types":[
         "Flexibility Training"
      ],
      "Heart Rate Zone Two Duration":0,
      "Device Names":[
         "Suunto 5"
      ],
      "Energy":325,
      "Heart Rate Zone One Duration":445.062,
      "Heart Rate Zone Four Duration":0,
      "Duration":446.07,
      "Description":"SM systém",
      "Total Training effect":3.7,
      "Peak EPOC":81.4,
      "Minimum Heart Rate":65,
      "Heart Rate Zone Three Duration":0,
      "Maximum Heart Rate":106,
      "Average Heart Rate":84,
      "Recovery Time":25680
   },
   "isMerge":false,
   "activities":[
      {
         "startDate":1618756269000,
         "endDate":1618756715000,
         "type":"Flexibility Training",
         "creator":{
            "name":"Suunto 5",
            "serialNumber":null,
            "swInfo":null,
            "hwInfo":null,
            "devices":[
               
            ]
         },
         "intensityZones":[
            {
               "type":"Heart Rate",
               "zone1Duration":445.062,
               "zone2Duration":0,
               "zone3Duration":0,
               "zone4Duration":0,
               "zone5Duration":0
            }
         ],
         "stats":{
            "Energy":325,
            "Maximum Heart Rate":106,
            "Pause Time":0.004000000000019099,
            "Distance":0,
            "Heart Rate Zone Five Duration":0,
            "Heart Rate Zone Three Duration":0,
            "Minimum Heart Rate":65,
            "Heart Rate Zone One Duration":445.062,
            "Recovery Time":25680,
            "Heart Rate Zone Two Duration":0,
            "Peak EPOC":81.4,
            "Average Heart Rate":84,
            "Total Training effect":3.7,
            "Duration":446.07,
            "Description":"SM systém",
            "Heart Rate Zone Four Duration":0
         },
         "events":[
            {
               "Start Event":0
            },
            {
               "Stop Event":446
            }
         ],
         "laps":[
            
         ],
         "streams":[
            {
               "type":"Heart Rate",
               "data":[
                  76,
                  78,
                  79,
                  81,
                  82,
                  84,
                  86,
                  87,
                  88,
                  88,
                  89,
                  90,
                  91,
                  91,
                  92,
                  "... continues untile 446 recored values"
               ]
            }
         ]
      }
   ]
}

[Aleksander H]

@tomas5 do you know if the watch was picking up false HR reading while it was lying on the table?

[Tomas5]

@surfboomerang yeah, it can be problem on this part, but still i took it of my wrist only after i pressed pause. Should’t be this part of exercise when it is paused excluded from stats ? I would not usually take it off my hand while paused, but I was afraid to repair washing machine with watch on my hand

[Tomas5]

@aleksander-h I came to stop it after some time because I saw that HR light was all the time on. So just to save battery I decited to stop because I knew it can take more than hour before I return to finish excercise. I don’t know if it was recording some values or not while on table, but definitely it was glowing all the time.

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

There is also metabolic rate included that is included in pauses. (Total time).

I am asking why PTE etc are cal;culated during pauses

[Tomas5]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos 607d0accd93e6a2433986ad6.fit

Here is fit file if this can help. Exported directly from suunto app.

I did exactly this:

Started excercise (indoor light excercise with WHR).
Paused excercise after 7 minutes and took watch off my wrist.
After some time, don’t know exact time but 10-40minuts I stoped already paused excercise.

Funny part that only from 7 minutes of light excercise I shoud rest 7 hours and from same excercise later but longer 14 minutes I should rest 0 hours. Something definitely wrong here.

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@tomas5 yeah pauses are included in the HR calculation. In a way this is normal because HR does get recorded during a pause, but not sure if that is expected.

Also the FIT file has clipped the data outside pauses for partners

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@tomas5 I got an answer. This is by design. CAlories doe get accounted during a pause if WHR is used as the calories come from the HR

[Aleksander H]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos makes sense really. It’s not like our body stops because we clicked pause.

Let’s say you go running in the mountains for 6 hours, and you had a 30 min break in the middle. Your body would still probably be working pretty hard during that rest, and that should probably be taken into account.

[Dimitrios Kanellopoulos]

@aleksander-h the key here is HR based I suppose. I am not sure if I am 100% agreeing with this but also sounds logical

[Aleksander H]

@dimitrios-kanellopoulos said in Serious BUG in calories, PTE, recovery:

I am not sure if I am 100% agreeing with this but also sounds logical

Personally I think the problem here is there isn’t a clear cut right and wrong. It’s more a subjective opinion. In my mind it makes sense, but I totally get why others would disagree.

[Tomas5]

@aleksander-h Yes it makes perfect sense while some activity, but I was doing really low power stretching like excercises. With low average HR, low maximum HR and low effort while another days when I do this excercise uninterupted I burn around 150 - 200 kcal so it was really too much off when I saw 325 only from 7 minutes of ligtest part of excercise.

[Mff73]

@tomas5
but maybe WHR measurements while watch not worn are not so relieable thus calories neither (like some users were able to measure bananas HR).
So it is really a use case … specific.

[Tomas5]

@mff73 yes, I expected zero reading when off wrist.

Edited: now it is confirmed that HR made some high readings when off wrist and thats reason for high calories and PTE.