Sleep Tracking
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@brad_olwin Well, maybe for you Apple works because you are invested into Apple’s walled garden. I’m talking in general…
Even in the US, iPhones are used by about half the population. The rest are happy with Androids. Worldwide it’s mostly Android. While Apple Music app exists there too, it’s far more natural to just go with Spotify. Why buy into Apple services if you aren’t using Apple devices? You can also pick Amazon Music, for example. Or other smaller services like Deezer.
All of these are available even on a cheap plastic Venu Sq or much older Vivoactive 3 Music, but you can’t get them on an Apple Watch!
And that’s the crux of my argument: Garmin offers a wider variety of streaming services on their watches, the integration is pretty much seamless from the point of view of sync or playback, and the services offered, like Spotify, is what majority of people around the world actually want to use. Better still, you can easily get 8-10 hours of music playback with GPS and OHR tracking on devices like Fenix 6.
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@nickk said in Sleep Tracking:
@brad_olwin Well, maybe for you Apple works because you are invested into Apple’s walled garden. I’m talking in general…
There are a lot of folks using Apple Music so I think it is ok to call that in general too.
While Apple Music app exists there too, it’s far more natural to just go with Spotify.
I don’t want to pay for another music service so it is not more natural to go with Spotify.
And that’s the crux of my argument: Garmin offers a wider variety of streaming services on their watches, the integration is pretty much seamless from the point of view of sync or playback, and the services offered, like Spotify, is what majority of people around the world actually want to use.
Well, I know lots of people that are not in the majority and there are a lot of complaints about Apple Music and Garmin and that is the crux of my argument. I’ve used an Apple Watch and the implementation with Apple Music is so far beyond what Garmin does, it’s ridiculous. I am merely making a point here that perhaps what is “far more natural” and once you have used an Apple Watch with Apple Music you will realize why Apple is kicking Garmins Ass. Anyway, I won’t hijack this thread anymore.
Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing
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@brad_olwin I did use Apple Music and Apple Watch since the very first release back in 2015 (aka Series 0) and up until about a year or two ago. I personally didn’t like how syncing was done in the beginning, nor the interface changes after that. Worse still, often playlist sync would get stuck or it would show synchronized but half the songs would be missing during playback. Apple Music stations also left a lot to be desired compared to, say, Pandora or Spotify.
So between these and occasional need to use Google and Samsung phones, I decided I’d be better off bidding a fond farewell to Apple’s garden.
I’m not arguing the fact that AW is the most popular wearable out there. And needless to say, as a smartwatch it’s years ahead of everything else on the market.
However, this doesn’t change the fact Garmin provides a much wider selection of music services on its wearables. Or that Spotify, one of the services provided, for example, has twice the premium subscribers Apple Music has (about 158M vs 72M). All the while Amazon is quickly catching up with its 55M subscribers and growing. That is, even now for every Apple Music user there are at least 3 users of other services…
Off-topic ends. Sorry to OP for high-jacking the thread.
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@brad_olwin
interesting stats, but the Garmin stats look really out compared to what they actually sell. I suspect that very few of their models are being included in these details.From your perspective yes Apple looks best, but from an overall perspective its Garmin as it does offer the most options - media controller for phone; offline playlists for Spotify, Amazon & Deezer (plus a host of others that are very country specific); and or you can use your own music.
So from that perspective it is more full featured than what the apple watch currently provides.
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I start thinking my unit should have some kind of defect.
Sleeping schedule on the watch: 22:00 to 06:00
Recorded sleep: 20:48 to 6:01
I went to bed at 22 or more. At 20:48 I was having dinner and definitely moving , tidying up things etc.
It is curious, the wake up time is mostly right everytime. -
@andré-faria tbh I find it strange that a defect you might have only influences the sleep tracking accuracy. To me it seems more probable to be a software issue, don’t you agree?
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@dmytro said in Sleep Tracking:
@andré-faria tbh I find it strange that a defect you might have only influences the sleep tracking accuracy. To me it seems more probable to be a software issue, don’t you agree?
Don’t know. A lot of people here have positive results, I believe the testers also…
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@andré-faria same here some days ago ! Recorded sleep from 20:39 on, when I was walking around and driving in my car etc. The S9P even recorded steps, and a quite steady HR but saw me asleep….
HR data clearly shows no significant drop and also movement (me walking around)
As my son isn’t using his Apple Watch atm, I wear it during nights to compare it to the S9P and it was spot on:
On other nights both are very close and everything is fine, so I don’t assume the Hardware is faulty and also in any sportsmode the S9P really shines, but concerning the “health” aspect, the S9P for me is not (yet) really “trustworthy “ at the moment (other than the S7 which was great in sleep and Resources).
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@chrisa said in Sleep Tracking:
@andré-faria same here some days ago ! Recorded sleep from 20:39 on, when I was walking around and driving in my car etc. The S9P even recorded steps, and a quite steady HR but saw me asleep….
HR data clearly shows no significant drop and also movement (me walking around)
As my son isn’t using his Apple Watch atm, I wear it during nights to compare it to the S9P and it was spot on:
On other nights both are very close and everything is fine, so I don’t assume the Hardware is faulty and also in any sportsmode the S9P really shines, but concerning the “health” aspect, the S9P for me is not (yet) really “trustworthy “ at the moment (other than the S7 which was great in sleep and Resources).
And what is your defined sleep schedule?
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@andré-faria 22:00 to 8:00 so there shouldn’t be any sleep tracking at 20:39… I wonder HOW the S9P calculated any sleep pattern starting at 20:39 since my HR did not drop significantly nor did I stop moving around AND I actually “told“ the S9P my sleeping times.
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@andré-faria today my start and end times are correct, but - and there is another „problem“ of the Suunto S9P - it often tells me me I was awake much longer than I actually was (this night for over two hours) and subtracts that from total sleep.
While I can’t really tell you how long I was awake I know that it wasn’t 2+ hours. I would guess it were about 10 to 30 minutes at most, what pretty matches with what the AW6 tracked…
AW6 (circled the awake time)
I don’t know why the S9P does not work as good as the S7 for me. I heard the S9P can also track HR in 1 second Intervalls hardwarewise, perhaps that’s included in a future firmware update and makes tracking the health features more reliable
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@chrisa Thank you Chrisa for sharing this. I enjoy my S9P a lot but the sleep tracking inaccuracy and the body resources bug annoy me a lot. If this could be solved it would be amazing. Hoping to see a firmware update addressing those issues.
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I read most of the thread and have similar results with my new S9:
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Fell Asleep: this always seems accurate
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Awake time: this is never correct. I can get up in the middle of the night to use the restroom & it still says awake time 0:00
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Woke up: Also never accurate. The watch never figures out I’m awake until I go downstairs and make a cup of coffee. It’s usually off at least 30min or more. Today it was off 1.5 hours.
I can even flick through the menus in bed and change settings, check gps & such yet it won’t say I woke up until I’m standing in my kitchen 45min later.
But it’s a huge step up from the old versions, patiently awaiting a firmware update.
S9P
SSU (sold) -
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So I have also noticed no awake time during night since the last FW update. I restarted the watch and then it worked for one night and then started reporting 0 hours again.
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There is a separate thread “0 awake time in sleep data”. I have not see any awake time since I started using my Spartan years ago.
I set my sleep time from 22:00~06:30 and when I wake up in the morning (but still in bed) and sync my watch, the app doesn’t show any reading at all. I need to actually physically get up from bed and walk around and sync my watch, then I see sleep data in my Suunto app but again, no awake time ever. However, Fitbit has different approach. The moment you sync your watch/tracker to the Fitbit app in the morning then it stops your sleep detection and set that time as your wake up time.
As I mentioned b4, I need to actually get up and walk around in order to get my sleep data but the algorithm counts and adds my “walk around” time into total sleep time. As I can see my wake up time is with later time. For example, when I wake up at 6:30am then I walk around and 30mins later I sync my watch, my wake up time is 7am.
I think it is less likely a HW issue, either accelerometer or gyro sensor but sounds more like a FW/algorithm issue.
Interesting thing is, if there is an “awake time” then my total sleep hr is in line with Fitbit.
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@jmoneygrip said in Sleep Tracking:
I can even flick through the menus in bed and change settings, check gps & such yet it won’t say I woke up until I’m standing in my kitchen 45min later.
What I usually do to end sleeping time (e.g. I wake up but stay in bed reading, so the watch cannot know I am awake): Start an activity. Basically it is enough to go to the pre-start screen when the watch would acquire GPS etc. At this stage you get the sleep end message
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I’m wondering why my watch only registers perhaps one out of three nights sleep-if I’m lucky. The rest of the time it reports no sleep tracked.
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@ramrod Do you sleep walking? Just kidding!
I think Suunto has a lot of work to do in terms of refining algorithm for HR and sleep tracking. No complaints on activities and GPS stuff.
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@egika I think both Garmin and Fitbit are designed in a way that if you sync your watch in the morning, it stops sleep tracking. Basically, you are “awake” and sleep stopped, they don’t count the time you stay in bed after that.
They don’t need you to physically get out of the bed, start activities then stops sleep tracking.
I am not saying who has the better design but simply saying for my personal experience and life style, Garmin and Fitbit are having better sleep tracking.
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@jom1104 yeah, there are probably some actions that could end sleep. I wonder who would do a sync to the phone as the first action in the morning. I usually sync after completing an activity.
Actually you don’t need to start the activity. Just select a sport mode and you will get the sleep summary.
