Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?

zhang965

@jedi2354 said in Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?:

I’ve just received my new Vertical Solar, and to say I’m underwhelmed would be an under statement.

Firstly, the display appears washed out and colourless. I’m looking at, what I assume, is supposed to be red (blood ox screen) but only getting a faded pink-ish hue.

Speaking of Blood Oxygen, can anyone get it to reliably read your O2? Of the 15 or so times I’ve tried it’s only provided a reading on 4 occasions. And on those occasions its so wildly inaccurate, it’s laughable. I’m pretty sure if my oxygen sats we 83% I’d be recieving emergency medical treatment rather than posting on here.

Finally, and I haven’t slept in it yet, but from reading the instructions (cause the interface is so non-user friendly) I seems like it will only record my sleep between the times that I program in. So it doesn’t auto detect sleep? Really? This £700+ watch can’t do what an £80 child’s activity tracker can do? Why is Suunto so behind on sleep monitoring? It’s such an important part of recovery and activity that it should feature much higher on their priorities. It’s bad enough that on their other models (Suunto 7), it only gives you a summary of each sleep phase, rather than telling you when exactly you woke up, or when you started deep sleep. I work shifts, so having to preprogram when I think I’m likely to be able to sleep each day is just not going to work for me.

Is anyone else seeing these issues?

You are not Suunto’s target audience, it’s all.

Welcome to Suunto community

BrunoH

@jedi2354 looks like this Jedi is on his way to the dark side. “Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

True, Vertical’s display is not as colorful and vibrant as OLED technology but it has been chosen on purpose. It helps maximizing the battery life and I also love the readability in all weather conditions. Especially in bright sunlight there’s nothing sub-standard about this display.

Regarding blood oxygen; I’ve seen the watch struggling to read O2 in bright daylight. Also wrist movement and the hairs on my caveman’s wrists can make it harder. Still, I’ve seen consistent results by having the watch measure O2 every night, but I turned it off. O2 figures were fun to see, but I do not need to measure O2 on regular basis. There are better medical devices for that if my health was depending on this.

Sleep tracking does not fully depend on the pre-defined schedule. Vertical has recognized me falling asleep ahead of that schedule, but working shifts might be too hard for Vertical. And sleep recognition is not very accurate anyway, Vertical has also interpreted peaceful book reading as being asleep. I borrowed my son’s Horor band for comparison. It gave me more detailed graphs of my sleep phases, but am I wiser now? Nope, and no handheld device can make me sleep better. But I see why you’re not happy with Suunto’s implementation.

If these are your top priority features then Suunto might not be the best option for you. May the force be with you.

Tieutieu

@zhang965 said in Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?:

@jedi2354 said in Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?:

You are not Suunto’s target audience, it’s all.

@jedi2354 : If you bought the Vertical for SPO2 mesurement and sleep tracking, I would assume @zhang965 is right…

The SV is such a great watch for outdoor…but is not a medical device…

jedi2354

So who is the target audience? Fanboys that don’t care whether features work or not? I thought that was more of an Apple product thing.

I stand corrected if sleep tracking works outside of programmed hours, and that’s great news. But I stand firm that everyone has the potential to benefit from more sleep data.

More features that don’t seem to work properly, I’m currently sitting still, manually measuring my radial pulse rate at 58bpm, the SV is displaying my HR as 152bpm.

zhang965

@jedi2354 said in Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?:

So who is the target audience?

It’s a very good question.

we don’t know who is the exact target audience, but if you ask such a question, you are probably not the target audience.

Egika

@jedi2354 there are training and outdoor features, where Suunto shines (like best GPS precision in the market, navigation features, topo maps, sport metrics etc.).

and then there are lifestyle features, where Suunto just ticks boxes on the fact sheet (like SpO2, step counter, etc), but does not focus on scientific precision here. Like knowing steps (which are not steps but arm movements probably related to steps) and measuring your blood oxygen saturation, does not really help you in your outdoor adventures or marathon preparation.

I hope you now got a little more insight in Suunto’s strategy.

Tieutieu

@jedi2354 said in Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?:

So who is the target audience? Fanboys that don’t care whether features work or not? I thought that was more of an Apple product thing.

I stand corrected if sleep tracking works outside of programmed hours, and that’s great news. But I stand firm that everyone has the potential to benefit from more sleep data.

More features that don’t seem to work properly, I’m currently sitting still, manually measuring my radial pulse rate at 58bpm, the SV is displaying my HR as 152bpm.

As every sensors accuracy depend on several things (skin, tightening…).
Personnaly OHR works fine for day tracking but I don’t use it for intense activities where I want precise mesurement - so I mostly use the HR Strap.
Sleep tracking works OK even If it need adjustments.
I haven’t tested the SPO2 mesurement, as I don’t think it’s usefull for me.

wakarimasen

There is no such thing as the perfect watch: a fact that I’ve made peace with some time ago. I still have my 9PP which I think is a beautiful device and cannot bear to get rid of it. However my ‘daily driver’ is a GARMIN Forerunner 955 which - for the things I’m doing (mostly running at present) - is just a better fit ‘for me.’ Do I like it? Nope! It’s not a thing of beauty, but the sleep tracking and other metrics just seem to work better for me, and that’s what I want at the moment. I wondered if I’d be wowed by the GARMIN and would sell the 9PP, but it’s not happened so far…

BrunoH

@jedi2354 Every single watch owner has their unique needs and preferences. The feature set provided by Suunto suits my mine. Vertical and Suunto App motivate me exercise more and lose weight -> mission accomplished. I could’ve gotten there with other brands, but I tried and didn’t like them so I moved on.

So please calm down already and just get a watch that suits your own needs. The aggressive venting won’t get you anywhere.

Jamie BG

@jedi2354
If SPO2 / sleep tracking are you main requirements you could have saved yourself a huge amount of money and got a fitbit.
MIP vs AMOLED - bad research - its pretty well known that MIP screens have less vibrancy and fewer colours. if you want a fitness watch with AMOLED your best option is curently Garmin as has the most choice (Polar and Coros I think have the odd current model).
Garmin may have been another better choice, and while like Suunto its not ideal for shifts (fitbit does this better) - you do get way more in terms of your sleep tracking - maybe look at a Garmin Venu 3 for example - I suggest this one as it has Garmin’s new sleep coach feature and does now track naps (no idea if this will roll out to other watches and when - but most likely to Fenix/Epix series). Or if you want more fitness metrics and training metrics and analytics there is the Forerunner 265 / 965 (if you want maps) and the Epix 2 (AMOLED version of the FEnix - it also has offline maps & offline TBT - and virtually every feature that Garmin offers).
Would give the Vertical a try - but if those are your main requriements I think you may continue to be disappointed and should probably consider other options.

GiPFELKiND

@jedi2354 Same Problems

Egika

@wakarimasen and it makes sense to keep your S9PP as sleep tracking and other metrics will be drastically changed and improved soon!

altcmd

@jedi2354 I wouldn’t say it is as much an “issue” as it is a feature that has seen little love over the years. Many have said that it is likely to be addressed soon but it’s anyone’s guess when that soon is.

It does not seem that Suunto is the right product for you - maybe an overkill for the ‘issues’ you describe. As others have pointed, you will get better mileage with screen, sleep metrics and SPO2 with Apple Watch and the like.

If you are within the return period, its never too late!

6294946

@Tieutieu I also think that sleep stages etc are mostly useless and inaccurate on all watches. But I am surprised by how many on this forum are willing to accept the bad ohr readings. Its 2023 and other manufacturesrs are able to produce sensors that are generally reliable except for maybe interval training. But on the vertical the ohr is just often wildly inaccurate, and I think that has made me regret buying one. I just hate carrying around a smelly chest strap when it should not be necessary.

Egika

@6294946 what makes you think the current wrist hear rate is accepted?
This is still under improvement (while the size and weight of the vertical of course is a heavy burden) and will be addressed with the next update as well.

BrunoH

@Egika honest question: is OHR really something that can be improved by SW? I thought the irregularities are caused by the sensor hardware failing under certain conditions. I used S9B for a couple of years and I never saw OHR improving over time. That’s why I bought the belt.

mikekoski490

@6294946 Every OHR watch I have had (Polar/Garmin/Coros) for the past several years has the exact same complaint - OHR doesn’t work while exercising seriously. And serious athletes do not rely on OHR - they us an HR strap. Not sure why there continues to be an expectation of what OHR can do vs cant. If you want daily HR or overnight HR, use OHR. If you want feedback on a sporting activity, get an HR belt for now until companies and reviewers start saying ‘its finally reliable’ to ditch the external strap.

My Vertical has been spot on any time I want to get an SPO2 reading, ‘if’ I take the reading correctly (sitting still, and sometimes put some slight pressure on it against the skin), and EXACTLY like Garmin and Coros, sometimes it takes a few times to get a reading.

All these readings need to work in tandem and can give you an indication of overtraining and illness - its why POLAR started way back in the 80’s with heart rate monitors. If you are training too hard, or getting sick, and if you monitor some stats daily, you can notice a trend and back off training a bit. Thats it. Nothing magical. And all of the guides Suunto and other watches provide give you tips on what type of training is recommended.

I think these wrist devices are great if you take in the big picture and look at trends vs one offs? I find these kinds of posts brutal - the watch does what it says, but the screen isn’t as bright as an OLED display, so its sub-standard? Jeez…people should read some reviews and online stuff, or go look at one in a store, before you buy maybe…

Egika

@BrunoH

@BrunoH said in Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?:

@Egika honest question: is OHR really something that can be improved by SW? I thought the irregularities are caused by the sensor hardware failing under certain conditions.

wrist HR sensors as well as any other sensor are always a combination of hardware and firmware. hardware is sending and receiving light. Firmware is filtering and interpreting the raw signals.
while hardware is fixed, the data processing can be changed with software.

I used S9B for a couple of years and I never saw OHR improving over time. That’s why I bought the belt.

I am not sure if S9B ever saw an improvement of WHR during its wrist heart rate. And it suffers even more from it’s weight…

Anyway. I just wanted to say that Suunto is working on this for their current models and while I don’t know how much it will change, it is not something that is accepted in it’s current state.

wakarimasen

@Egika Yes! I read this before and am looking forward to new metrics!

GiPFELKiND

@Egika said in Is the Vertical as sub-standard as it seems?:

@6294946 what makes you think the current wrist hear rate is accepted?
This is still under improvement (while the size and weight of the vertical of course is a heavy burden) and will be addressed with the next update as well.

The Question ist WHEN WHEN WHEN the promised update will COME!!! Since Juli here we read the next update will come…UNTIL TODAY NO UPDATE