Disappointing Sleep tracking after new update

[Philip]

@Iggge I think it is more important to watch the figure of the quality of your sleep, and I must say in my par it is always like I feel myself in the morning when getting up.
The hours I slept is more or less 1 or 2 hours less than I slept.

[Iggge]

@Philip absolutely, but for a 800$ watch I want the most basic features to work. I do know that I wakes up sometimes during sleep for various reasons. But that a 7 hours sleep shows as a 2 hours sleep is just to big difference, and is altso affecting other data to as HRV and Resources

[AnonVerticalOwner]

Reporting back after some days now again. I’ve had one night that seemed spot-on, but for the rest it’s been randomly completely misjudging sleep/waking times, and detecting awake hours.

It’s clear that when you miss a bit of HR data it draws conclusions from that super quickly, but even with 100%/complete HR data it can get really far off.

I wonder if those who experience this move quite a bit during their sleep. Perhaps it’s not handling it well when people are tossing and turning, and the nights being reported as spot-on could be the ones where they haven’t.

It’s at least not only HR, even if it definitely appears more/too sensitive on that front too. Are there any ideas from Suunto’s end? Happy to test hypotheses.

[Tieutieu]

Still perfect here : I woke up tonight for a minute.
This morning at first the watch told me « 3 hours sleep » when I went to sleep section (from when I fall asleep to the moment I woke up). But few moment after I had been really awake and stood up, I had the « last night resume » with my 7h37 hours of sleep with 1min awake.
With the previous firmware my SV would had been usually stuck to the 3 hours.

[A Former User]

Well, I am not sure what exactly happened, because I have not changed anything at all, but the sleep tracking is now worse on my watch. I have also checked my gf’s S9PP, and it’s even worse. Until two or three nights ago the sleep tracking was spot on, suddenly it has issues with recognising when I went to bed. So the outcome is shorter sleep. I don’t really get it.

[Łukasz Szmigiel]

@tomasbartko my sleep and regeneration is super awesome after the last update. To the point that it seems that I should be fine with 5 - 6 hours of sleep and I never go below 40% resources. Which I believe is far from true.

Likewise, I didn’t change anything in regards to base HR or sleep time.

[A Former User]

@Łukasz-Szmigiel Do you also have 99% of resources every morning? Even though you feel like ?

[Łukasz Szmigiel]

@tomasbartko yes, every day. I also have approx. 1 hour of deep sleep more than I used to have with previous algorithm.

[Likarnik]

@Łukasz-Szmigiel same for me, I can regenerate as fast as a wolverine!

[Michał Kasprzyk]

Ok, one question within this thread - how it can be that suunto race vs vertical sleep tracking is so vastly different? I used race for a while, but i prefer MIP screen, so switched to vertical and im super happy with the watch… but not with sleep tracking.
For me it detects no sleep phases (only deep sleep / awake time) + always i have 100% recovery even if i slept for 6hrs and feel really bad.

Also, are suunto devs aware of it and keen on fixing it? Sleep time (start/stop) are perfect, but also having at least any sleep insights would be good - especially due to fact that they have this on race, so im super surprised that on vertical they’re not available…

[Jeffrey Tillack]

@Michał-Kasprzyk my Suunto 9 Baro nails my sleep every night, whereas my Apple Watch Ultra is genuinely terrible! For $1400 Australian I expected so much more from Apple. Wish I’d gone with the Vertical now

[Egika]

@Michał-Kasprzyk said in Disappointing Sleep tracking after new update:

Ok, one question within this thread - how it can be that suunto race vs vertical sleep tracking is so vastly different? I used race for a while, but i prefer MIP screen, so switched to vertical and im super happy with the watch… but not with sleep tracking.
For me it detects no sleep phases (only deep sleep / awake time) + always i have 100% recovery even if i slept for 6hrs and feel really bad.

Also, are suunto devs aware of it and keen on fixing it? Sleep time (start/stop) are perfect, but also having at least any sleep insights would be good - especially due to fact that they have this on race, so im super surprised that on vertical they’re not available…

Suunto Race and Vertical use different algorithms for sleep tracking.
Both are different from the Firstbeat metrics that were in Suunto watches before.
Now Vertical and S9PP are the first watches that make use of a fully in house developed sleep tracking.
And yes, the work to improve the sleep tracking is going.

[Łukasz Szmigiel]

@Egika said in Disappointing Sleep tracking after new update:

Suunto Race and Vertical use different algorithms for sleep tracking.

This sounds like a strange business decision. Go for another 3rd party algorithm while developing a universal algorithm in house.

[Michał Kasprzyk]

@Egika yeah, that’s the reason im sticking with vertical - i don’t need deep sleep analysis anyway and apart from that the watch is GREAT.
And i prefer MIP display way more over AMOLED (well, im an old-school guy it seems), and with most recent update to vertical with widgets and performance it’s super fulfilling all my needs.
So im also keen on looking into sleep updates of the algorithm to be at least comparable to race, as this is the only painful point for me so far (and definitely not a dealbreaker of changing vertical to race for me, but if someone’s focused on sleep tracking then yeah - race was much better IMO in this area).
Also, on vertical the ‘morning report’ is kinda useless as it has maybe 20% of data of what race have had (or maybe it’s just a me problem, but still).
Thanks for the comment tho.

[Egika]

@Łukasz-Szmigiel there sure is reasoning behind this, no doubt.
Anyway - it is like it is. I tried to explain the difference. No way I am able to explain Suunto’s business decisions, you might understand.

[Łukasz Szmigiel]

@Egika sure, I don’t blame you, it just seems weird, especially for people who own two different devices.

[Mff73]

@Łukasz-Szmigiel
https://forum.suunto.com/post/131343

[RaDeck]

@tomasbartko
I can report the EXACT same behavior! My sleep tracking was pretty good prior to update but now it needs 2-3 hours to actually recognize I’m sleeping, which result in 4-5 hours nights… short, very short… and very inaccurate… yet the scoring is way better then it used to when my tracking was on spot (again this scoring is now completely ‘off’ as it gives me scores of 90% for 4hrs15 of sleep). Furthermore, in these hours the recovery is ‘speedy’ to say the least! My resources are way higher than they used to be with way less sleep.
Long story short: we can see the importance of a a well balanced algorithm; definitely not the case on the PP9 at the moment! On the plus side we get the HRV, I’ll monitor HRV data and disregard the sleep track for the time being.

[Łukasz Szmigiel]

@Mff73 thanks, makes sense.

[Swaddy61]

I find the Sleep Tracking on my SV isn’t ‘exactly’ correct, but overall gives an impression of how I slept. i.e. a bad night tends to have less sleep hours, and a good night more, but the actual figure shown tends to be different to how many hours I know I slept. If it needs to be exact to calculate other parameters (like Recovery) then perhaps that is an issue, but the other parameters seem to be an accurate reflection of how I feel, so…

Sleep Tracking was slightly worse on my Coros.