HRV on Vertical

Stefan Kersting

Yes a lot is individual. When skiing with my buddies they are laughing at me because of my high max HR. I am 47 and when pushing myself I can have a HR of 194 (measured with belt). I was litt worried about that because usually you calculate max HR = 220-age. And that does not work for me. I read something about that this formula is not up to date any more and so I was less worried about my HR. I think it is the same with the HRV.

isazi

@Marton-Attila was a general comment after reading for a while, nothing about you in particular, sorry if I made you feel that way

@Stefan-Kersting welcome to the club. I have a quite high HR and when I played soccer I measured over 200 a few times, with belt, but until today I am not sure if that was really true, or just a glitch will never know I guess.

Stefan Kersting

@tomasbartko do not know if 194 was true, but it was not urealistic either. In any case, even it is some prosent wrong the HR does not fit in the formula

@tomasbartko I hope you are doing the right heart stress checks. In the past I have had episodes of tachycardia on exertion only to find that I had minor problems and was suggested me to quit mountain running. only god knows how much I ran with the holter…

mikekoski490

@isazi This morning my Suunto HRV morning report score was 16. This would indicate serious illness.

That said, same morning score via an app and Polar H10, was 48.

I was asking if there could be an issue for some with low scores, as it seems very incorrect, and my point was to check other sources and not panic.

Seems like this is similar to the OHR experience. HRV works for some, and currently not accurate for others.

pilleus

@mikekoski490 said in HRV on Vertical:

This morning my Suunto HRV morning report score was 16. This would indicate serious illness.

That said, same morning score via an app and Polar H10, was 48.

Can you say which values the app uses for calculation? If 5 minutes are spent on this, then it is an average while awake, you are not allowed to move.

Unless you know which values Suunto uses for the calculation, you cannot make any comparisons. It makes sense to only measure the values in the deep sleep phase, as you don’t move during that time. If the sleep recording is not correct (e. g. the deep sleep phases are missing), the values are also incorrect.

So it depends on a correct measurement of the sleep in the night.

The first thing to notice is that the HRV curve closely corresponds to the amount of physical activity. It gets much higher in the light sleep phase, partly due to the simple fact of the body turning and tossing more intensely, partly due to internal processes related to the REM phase.

The parts that we should focus on instead are the lower values during the deep sleep phases when the body is completely still. The values then represent the natural variability of a free-running heart. These valleys are typically lower when one goes to bed very tired (a tough day at work, heavy exercise), and they get higher during the night as the body and the mind get refreshed.

That’s the problem with different systems and algorithms that different values come out that are not the same.

Swaddy61

@mikekoski490 As I also have a Polar H10 belt I downloaded the Elite App and conducted their HRV test. Now, it is late afternoon and I have had a pretty busy / active day (although without a gym session etc), and it has given an HRV value of 48ms, vs the SV figure of 19ms overnight last night. I am not ‘competing’ for the best HRV value (I wouldn’t win anyway!), just trying to alert Suunto to the fact that their HRV results do not appear to be consistently accurate!

As a reasonaby fit 62 year old (gym 3+ times / week, other activities most days, resting HR 56 bpm, BP of 119/78), I am inclined to believe that the Elite value (via the H10 belt) is likely more accurate. I will for sure, track it over the following days, and continue to compare to the SV figures. If the two values trend similarly, then we will know it is an offset issue, but if there is no correlation, then (probably) the SV’s figures are to be ignored completely, which would be a shame on an $800 watch!

Interestingly, the HR value of the SV (OHR) is within 1 bpm of the H10 at the same time, and the SV tracks my sleep with about 85% accuracy, both of which some people report as being far off their actual figures. So it seems it is the HRV algorithm which works better for some people than others - which is strange, as you would think it is a pretty simple, measured, metric?

I tried wearing the watch tighter last night, to see if that helped, but got my lowest HRV value!

Likewise, I find the SpO2 figures for the SV to be very variable - sometimes as low as 82% (quick, call an ambulance!), but ‘usually’ between 95 - 100%, which were the figures I generally got with my Coros Apex Pro.

Other than that, so far I am very pleased with the SV Ti Solar, although hoping the battery guage settles down over a few more charge / use cycles (I won’t get 20 days on a charge at the current discharge rate, with only about 2 hours of GPS a week so far - my 3 year old Coros was still managing > 17 days with the same usage).

So, a few more days of testing, and I will report back!

mikekoski490

@pilleus Hi. The ‘values’ would be the same on both Suunto and the HRV app: my age/height/weight/gender etc.

Polar does the same morning static test, using their HRM, for their Polar watches (or at least used to back when I had a Polar Vantage), which is why I got the brainstorm for using an HRV app with the H10.

From checking online, an average HRV score for my age is about 50ms (+/-). 2 different HRV apps now over 3 days have given me an average of 48. I didn’t see any studies that say if you take an ‘overnight’ HRV test, an HRV score of 15ms is fine - on the contrary, it was stressing me out!

So, for me, HRV is not accurate on Suunto yet, but I understand it might be for others. I was just adding my experience. I would prefer to rely on one app, SA, for everything, but for now I’ll prefer to use the Elite HRV app and H10 for this measurement. I do find HRV info informative, and again, not looking at a single score, but trends. Thanks!

@robis Yes I do and also went recently. Everything is okay, I am healthy

pilleus

@mikekoski490

It’s okay, no problem with your way to measure hrv.

I prefer the over night method, because I want to see whether the value stays the same or increases over the course of the night.

mikekoski490

@pilleus For sure. Its all about trends.

My HRV app says I need at least 4 mornings, but at least 2 weeks, of measurements to get accurate trends.

Hoping to rely on SA and ditch the HRV app though!

Swaddy61

@mikekoski490 said in HRV on Vertical:

@pilleus For sure. Its all about trends.

My HRV app says I need at least 4 mornings, but at least 2 weeks, of measurements to get accurate trends.

Hoping to rely on SA and ditch the HRV app though!

That would be my wish too!

surfboomerang

Do you have to enable “Daily HR” to get HRV during sleep? Or is the “HRV tracking” option enough under sleep settings?

@surfboomerang said in HRV on Vertical:

Do you have to enable “Daily HR”

yep, needed

surfboomerang

@robis Then I guess the desciption in SA needs to change:

“How to measure my HRV?
Suunto measures HRV during sleep. To obtain HRV data, you should wear your watch while sleeping and ensure that sleep tracking is enabled on the device.
During the sleep period, heart rate variability is measured continuously…”

Also when enabling the HRV tracking option there is no warning to enable Daily HR as well.

mikekoski490

Interesting. My Suunto HRV score this morning was 16ms. The HRV app was 50ms.

However, both show the same trend.

So, I think Suunto score is wrong for me as a 16ms HRV score would normally be pretty bad, but the trend is matching the readiness score of the HRV app.

herlas

@mikekoski490 in my case I have the Oura ring too and it measures from 1 to 4 ms more than my vertical OHR, I’m not sure you can have two different devices giving the same numbers for HRV, algorithms are not the same, and neither the place on our hand where we take the measurements. The crazy difference you get on your Suunto watch is pretty weird.

Example from last night Oura 74 ms, my vertical 71 ms.

Swaddy61

@mikekoski490 Seems we are in similar positions! My SV figure for last night was 20ms, my Elite HRV was 48ms. Both higher than yesterday, so yes. It seems there is a bit if an offset, but trends are similar. I do wish the SV was more in line with Elite…

@herlas If the difference was small (and with the same trends) I would also be happy, but the difference is very big…

pilleus

@mikekoski490 said in HRV on Vertical:

My Suunto HRV score this morning was 16ms. The HRV app was 50ms.

I use for testing the Android app “Sleep as android” and a Polar Verity Sense for capturing the heart rate.

The result is 51 ms regarding all the captured values of the night. But regarding the low values in the deep sleep phases, where the heart is running free without disturbing influences or movements, the result is 29 ms.

So there are different results within one app and with the same data.

We may ask Suunto, what kind of calculation is the base of the hrv shown on the Vertical …