Suunto app Forum Suunto Community Forum
    • Recent
    • Tags
    • Popular
    • Users
    • Groups
    • Register
    • Login

    Suunto vertical ascent/ descent totally incorrect

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Suunto Vertical
    60 Posts 20 Posters 5.3k Views 25 Watching
    Loading More Posts
    • Oldest to Newest
    • Newest to Oldest
    • Most Votes
    Reply
    • Reply as topic
    Log in to reply
    This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
    • M Offline
      maszop Bronze Member @freeheeler
      last edited by

      @freeheeler I understand progress and new features, but breaking things that work well is unacceptable.

      isaziI 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • isaziI Online
        isazi Moderator @maszop
        last edited by isazi

        @maszop the Baro was not working well at all, in fact it was much worse than new watches, being not only susceptible to wind but also rain and water. And the Ambit had the hole on the bottom of the watch, getting crazy if you did sweat.

        Edit: not to minimize the issue, I had it today for example, 35 meters of ascent when it should have been 0, because of code yellow winds

        Watch: Suunto Vertical Ti

        Blog: isazi's home

        M 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • M Offline
          maszop Bronze Member @isazi
          last edited by maszop

          @isazi I used 9 Baro for a long time and then 9PP and Vertical. The same routes, similar weather, many times the same crossings. My results are clear. 9 Baro calculated the total elevation gain correctly in most cases. Newer ones almost always add at least some 500-1000m for routes of 15-20km distance and 1500-2500m of elevation gain.

          Edit:
          One from many examples:
          9Baro, bad weather - 18.06km, 1860m total ascent;
          9Baro, good weather (slightly shorter version) - 1740m total ascent (Garmin Instinct, the same hike - 1708m ascent);
          9PP, good weather - 18.19 km, 1763m total ascent;
          Vertical bad weather - 17.99km, 2302m total ascent (9Baro with the person I hiked with - the same bad weather - 1840m ascent).

          Brad_OlwinB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • Brad_OlwinB Online
            Brad_Olwin Moderator @maszop
            last edited by

            @maszop said in Suunto vertical ascent/ descent totally incorrect:

            @isazi I used 9 Baro for a long time and then 9PP and Vertical. The same routes, similar weather, many times the same crossings. My results are clear. 9 Baro calculated the total elevation gain correctly in most cases. Newer ones almost always add at least some 500-1000m for routes of 15-20km distance and 1500-2500m of elevation gain.

            This is your use case, not a general phenomenon so I disagree. It is very windy where I live and very, very rare to have ascent/descent errors.
            Have you tried cleaning the sensor area? Have you performed soft or hard reset? My experience is with2 different S9PP, 2 Race watches and 2 Vertical watches.

            Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing

            pilleusP M 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
            • pilleusP Offline
              pilleus @Brad_Olwin
              last edited by

              @Brad_Olwin said in Suunto vertical ascent/ descent totally incorrect:

              so I disagree

              +1

              I never had problems with a Suunto watch and wrong ascent/descent data. Okay, the Spartans record a little less than the actual watches, but only if there are long flat passages with only a little up and down.

              https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
              Suunto Vertical Black Lime
              Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
              Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

              M 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • M Offline
                maszop Bronze Member @Brad_Olwin
                last edited by maszop

                @Brad_Olwin Do you hike in the mountains with many steep climbs, without trails, i.e. relatively slowly? You’ve previously written about skiing and cross-country running, and these are completely different activities that may not have these problems. The problem is a lot of erroneous altitude measurements that are too fast - pulsating altitude readings that do not correspond to the ascents or descent.

                These sample routes given earlier are approximately 18 km, 1800 m ascents and approximately 8-9 hours long.
                With these types of routes, the error is usually 500-1000 m more than it should be.

                freeheelerF Brad_OlwinB 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • freeheelerF Offline
                  freeheeler @maszop
                  last edited by

                  @maszop
                  I know what you mean and I saw this kind of measurements when road cycling. it is the activity where you point the sensor directly into the wind.
                  it doesn’t happen if you slightly cover the sensor holes.

                  I have put my watches in many different situations and cycling headwind is the worst. actually it is the only bad situation in my experience. there’s a workaround for it to put the watch on the handlebar.
                  so in my opinion it is the best compromise across all kind of sports.

                  living sideways

                  pilleusP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • M Offline
                    maszop Bronze Member @pilleus
                    last edited by

                    I may be wrong, but I think it could be easily solved using the same principle as calculating distance based on GPS data.
                    To simplify, the position is recorded using GNSS every second, which gives 32,400 measurements for 9 hours. If all these points were connected with a line, the same absurd results would be obtained. This does not happen because before calculating the distance, the route is simplified and fewer points are used.
                    By the same principle, it would be possible to remove such noise from redundant measurements. It seems that these measurements are still too many for “slower” sports.

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                    • pilleusP Offline
                      pilleus @freeheeler
                      last edited by

                      @freeheeler said in Suunto vertical ascent/ descent totally incorrect:

                      it is the activity where you point the sensor directly into the wind.

                      With the Vertical it is impossible to have the sensors in the wind when mounted on a handle bar, because the openings of the sensor point towards the driver and not forward (below the Sunnto logo).

                      Or are these not the openings for the sensor?

                      https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
                      Suunto Vertical Black Lime
                      Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
                      Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

                      freeheelerF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • freeheelerF Offline
                        freeheeler @pilleus
                        last edited by

                        @pilleus
                        absolutely correct.
                        I usually wear my watch on the wrist, even for cycling and mtb. I do put watches on the handle bar for testing purposes. depending on the speeds, position of my hand, headwinds, gloves, jacket sleeves etc. there can be differences in total ascent and they are visible on the graph similar as in @maszop ‘s graph.

                        living sideways

                        pilleusP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • pilleusP Offline
                          pilleus @freeheeler
                          last edited by pilleus

                          @freeheeler

                          I never had issues with a Suunto or other watch while cycling. Neither on the handle bar nor on the wrist. And I am on the bike every day and often have 500 to 1000 meters of ascent.

                          An easy way to check it is in Strava the auto correction or a gpx viewer.

                          I’m glad to have no problems with ascent/descent. 👍

                          https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
                          Suunto Vertical Black Lime
                          Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
                          Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

                          freeheelerF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • freeheelerF Offline
                            freeheeler @pilleus
                            last edited by

                            @pilleus
                            do you have a bike with dropper bars?

                            living sideways

                            pilleusP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • pilleusP Offline
                              pilleus @freeheeler
                              last edited by

                              @freeheeler

                              No, why should I torture myself? If I want to go fast, I ride a velomobile or a fast recumbent bike … 😊

                              https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
                              Suunto Vertical Black Lime
                              Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
                              Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

                              freeheelerF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • freeheelerF Offline
                                freeheeler @pilleus
                                last edited by

                                @pilleus
                                you made me notice that I wasn’t precise enough. on the roadbike the hand position is often different to any other bike handlebar and hence the position of the sensor holes…

                                living sideways

                                pilleusP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -1
                                • pilleusP Offline
                                  pilleus @freeheeler
                                  last edited by

                                  @freeheeler

                                  Yes, but I think it doesn’t matter. On my recumbent bike and trike I often let my arm hang down and the sensor holes are directly in the wind. No negative impact so far for the reading of the barometric pressure.

                                  https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
                                  Suunto Vertical Black Lime
                                  Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
                                  Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • pilleusP Offline
                                    pilleus
                                    last edited by

                                    Strong winds can affect the air pressure around the sensor, which can result in an incorrect barometric altitude reading. Typically, an increase in wind speed results in lower air pressure, while a decrease in wind speed can result in higher air pressure.

                                    If I have the severe weather alarm switched on in my Suunto watches, then warning messages should constantly come during the changes if the wind so often affects the barometric altitude measurement.

                                    Has anyone noticed this yet? 💨 🌪

                                    https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
                                    Suunto Vertical Black Lime
                                    Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
                                    Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

                                    freeheelerF M 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • freeheelerF Offline
                                      freeheeler @pilleus
                                      last edited by

                                      @pilleus
                                      yes and no.
                                      yes, I have received several storm alarms since I have my Vertical.
                                      no, it never happened to me due to winds, because it needs a certain pressure drop over a specific time

                                      living sideways

                                      S 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • S Offline
                                        Swaddy61 Silver Members @freeheeler
                                        last edited by

                                        @freeheeler Ditto - Several storm alarms with SV when there have been storms coming, and none at any other time.

                                        SV Ti All Black, Coros Apex Pro, Ambit 3 Peak, Ambit 3 Sport (sold), Ambit 2 (Sold), X10 Mi (Retired), Quest (Sold), T3 (Sold), T6C (Retired as unfixable - Suunto gave me a big discount on Ambit 2!), Polar H10 belt, Suunto Smart Belt

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                        • M Offline
                                          maszop Bronze Member @pilleus
                                          last edited by maszop

                                          @pilleus In my case, i.e. for activities such as hiking, mountaineering, trekking, what you write about usually does not matter that much (directly) because the current altitude is more or less correct (we are talking about mountainous terrain, so some inaccuracy does not matter), I can can accept them even in strong winds.

                                          The problem is that there are too many of these results, all with some small error because this is how the barometric altimeter works, which add up, giving a completely incorrect total result.

                                          With little wind, these deviations are not large enough to significantly affect the overall results. In stronger winds it is very visible - sometimes over 1000 m additional climbs.

                                          Instead of fighting the wind, which is impossible anyway, it is better to simply introduce a filter that would remove the noise of too many results.

                                          To start with, the simplest filter to remove some unnecessary altimeter’s records, and then over time it can be improved by introducing more sophisticated algorithms.
                                          This could be done as an additional option to be turned on during or after activity (because it would certainly reduce the accuracy of the measurements somewhat), when it is clearly visible to the naked eye that the elevation sums are completely wrong.

                                          pilleusP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • pilleusP Offline
                                            pilleus @maszop
                                            last edited by pilleus

                                            @maszop said in Suunto vertical ascent/ descent totally incorrect:

                                            The problem is that there are too many of these results, all with some small error because this is how the barometric altimeter works, which add up, giving a completely incorrect total result.

                                            May be I do not understand the problem, because it never happens to me since I use watches with barometer and gps (cycling, mountain biking, walking, running, in different areas, the Alps included).

                                            Do you use only barometric altimeter without gps?

                                            https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
                                            Suunto Vertical Black Lime
                                            Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
                                            Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                            • First post
                                              Last post

                                            Suunto Terms | Privacy Policy