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    Suunto ZoneSense

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved SuuntoPlus™ Sports Apps
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    • D Offline
      dulko79
      last edited by

      A new beta for ios just popped up. I did indoor cycling the other day, no ddfa index was calculated. Now I can see ddfa index chart in the app, even aerobic threshold was detected. I used garmin hrm pro chest strap for the activity. I connected the strap to vertical first then to zwift. It seems there has been improvement in the suunto zonesense.

      App: beta
      Phone: Iphone
      iOS

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      • Ze StuartZ Offline
        Ze Stuart Gold Members @Brad_Olwin
        last edited by

        @Brad_Olwin sure, it’d still be interesting to see it alongside the rest of the data.

        ZS equivalent of IT troubleshooting steps 1 and 2: is it plugged in, did you turn it on?

        https://zulusierra.co

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        • D Offline
          droopsio @droopsio
          last edited by

          @droopsio said in Suunto ZoneSense:

          Hi,

          I have a problem with an app on the watch (Suunto Race S). As you may see on the photo, graphic widget display never changes from green to yellow/red - even in case, that I’m running with higher intensity.
          After the workout is finished and saved, in the summary presented by app you can see, that I have been yellow/red zones, but it is never displayed on the watch while doing activity.

          Additionally to this - for the whole time, I have a notice about warmup calibration.

          Is it a bug for Race S series, or there’s something wrong with my watch?

          In the example photo you’ll see, that some part of activity was made with higher intensity but it was never presented with marker and color (nor the stripe or edge).
          IMG_2245.jpeg

          @Brad_Olwin can you pls advise reg this problem? I did few more runs and each time it is the same - it seems, that it is not working with Race S or my wach?

          H 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • H Offline
            halajos Bronze Member @droopsio
            last edited by

            @droopsio do you have any other Suunto+ activated or intensity target set? I had issues with ZoneSense when I tried to use different features at the same time.

            D 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • kriskusK Offline
              kriskus Bronze Member @mlakis
              last edited by

              @mlakis I had very similar results. I can’t say that the intervals were short in my case - I did a 4x1200m session at around 4:00/km pace (that’s above my threshold pace). HR data seems correct (black line in the picture), while ZoneSense data shows the same as in your case. It goes down during the interval and high up during a 3’ pause between each session (green/yellow line). I was using Polar H10 sensor. Overall, this feature looks promising, but doesn’t give meaningful data as of yet or perhaps I don’t understand the idea of its functioning.
              Screenshot_20241010_145622.jpg

              Mff73M VoiGASV herlasH 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • Mff73M Online
                Mff73 @kriskus
                last edited by

                @kriskus and others,
                i noted the same, and i would love to understand how to use it (if usable 🙂 )
                there was here https://forum.suunto.com/post/155245 this mention about a 3min window.
                Might we consider that ZS is indicating the past 3min reflect of our effort ?

                Suunto Spartan Ultra (since 2016) FW: 2.8.24 (retired)
                Suunto Vertical all black
                Wife : S9PP
                SA: Always the latest beta :)
                Android 13, Galaxy S205G

                kriskusK H 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • D Offline
                  droopsio @halajos
                  last edited by

                  @halajos I have climb enabled, but before zone sens I’ve had also 2 S+ apps active. I don’t think that climb should interfere with ZS (?)

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                  • kriskusK Offline
                    kriskus Bronze Member @Mff73
                    last edited by kriskus

                    @Mff73 Well, in my case it would probably be a little more. Each interval was around 5’ long and ZS only starts rising just before the 3’ pause. It looks just as if it was somewhat shifted vs HR.

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                    • VoiGASV Offline
                      VoiGAS Silver Members @kriskus
                      last edited by

                      @kriskus Looks you have problems to reach the red zone - me too. Made a 3/9 minute FTP test today. In the All Out sections I thought I would spit my lungs out, but nothing red in Zonesense and also no VO2MAX threshold as I didn’t cross it 😫


                      Race S
                      Ambit3 Vertical

                      Łukasz SzmigielŁ kriskusK 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • herlasH Offline
                        herlas Silver Members @kriskus
                        last edited by

                        @kriskus such long delay is odd, haven’t seen that in my use of ZoneSense. 1200m reps almost fall in the short side for ZS to represent the accumulated fatigue but should be doable. In my experience, when talking intervals, about 800 meters in, it starts to show realistic effort levels. BTW it’s also known/expected that after quick changes of pace (from jogging to start of interval) ZS will drop to low green and then start going up as rep progresses.

                        Looks like your baseline collection (first 10 mins) were done in yellow already, recommendation is to go easy on those 10 initial mins, mostly aerobic to get a good baseline, when effort increases, it’s going to be compared against o that baseline if it was captured at all, otherwise previous day(s) captured baseline.

                        SRS Ti
                        A3P (drill mode for pool swimming 🤦🤷)
                        Galaxy Z Flip 3 / Galaxy S24+

                        kriskusK 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                        • Łukasz SzmigielŁ Offline
                          Łukasz Szmigiel @VoiGAS
                          last edited by

                          @VoiGAS try a medium speed 30 min run to reach base exhaustion and then slowly but steadily push towards limit for as long as you can.

                          S9PP 2.40.38

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                          • kriskusK Offline
                            kriskus Bronze Member @herlas
                            last edited by

                            @herlas Well, the first ~2kms were in fact a warm-up, and all done in the green zone. My HR zones were set up after a performance test, though it’s been a while now and they might need light adjustment.
                            Screenshot_20241010_200719.jpg

                            herlasH 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • kriskusK Offline
                              kriskus Bronze Member @VoiGAS
                              last edited by

                              @VoiGAS Actually, today’s run wasn’t meant to get to the red zone. Recently I did a treadmill run to get to my max and I reached the red zone in the end:
                              Screenshot_20241010_201227.jpg

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                              • herlasH Offline
                                herlas Silver Members @kriskus
                                last edited by herlas

                                @kriskus 10 min warmup in green according to your current HR zones, I was talking about your ZoneSense data clearly shows it was yellow, so probably a tad quicker than the aerobic recommended warmup for ZS.

                                1000002828.jpg

                                SRS Ti
                                A3P (drill mode for pool swimming 🤦🤷)
                                Galaxy Z Flip 3 / Galaxy S24+

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • H Offline
                                  halajos Bronze Member @Mff73
                                  last edited by halajos

                                  @Mff73 said in Suunto ZoneSense:

                                  @kriskus and others,
                                  i noted the same, and i would love to understand how to use it (if usable 🙂 )
                                  there was here https://forum.suunto.com/post/155245 this mention about a 3min window.
                                  Might we consider that ZS is indicating the past 3min reflect of our effort ?

                                  I’ve read the whitepaper and as far as I understood the calculation is based on various buckets of R-R intervals, with bucket sizes between 5…64 R-R intervals. This means the current DDFA index is calculated based on about the last 20…60 seconds of R-R data depending on the HR.

                                  EgikaE 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • EgikaE Offline
                                    Egika Platinum Member @halajos
                                    last edited by

                                    @halajos said in Suunto ZoneSense:

                                    @Mff73 said in Suunto ZoneSense:

                                    @kriskus and others,
                                    i noted the same, and i would love to understand how to use it (if usable 🙂 )
                                    there was here https://forum.suunto.com/post/155245 this mention about a 3min window.
                                    Might we consider that ZS is indicating the past 3min reflect of our effort ?

                                    I’ve read the whitepaper and as far as I understood the calculation is based on various buckets of R-R intervals, with bucket sizes between 5…64 R-R intervals. This means the current DDFA index is calculated based on about the last 20…60 seconds of R-R data depending on the HR.

                                    You are both right:
                                    There is the Zonesense sampling rate, but more so your body. Zonesense is relying on a somewhat stable condition of your cardiovascular system. This is where the 3 mins come from. Quick changes in effort or power cannot be measured with a sampling rate of 0.5-1min.

                                    Google sampling rate.

                                    t6, S6, Elementum Terra, Ambit 3 Sapphire, Spartan Ultra Copper, Traverse Alpha, S7 Graphite LE, S9B Ambassador, S9P Granite Blue Titanium, S9PP Titanium Sand, Vertical All Black, Race Titanium Charcoal,
                                    Race S All Black - TI Canary - Titanium Courtney

                                    mlakisM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • mlakisM Offline
                                      mlakis Bronze Member @Egika
                                      last edited by

                                      @Egika, now we can speak.

                                      The need for stable cardiovascular condition and the too slow sample rate, in addition to the first minutes where it calibrates, mean that ZoneSense can be a good test to determine zones, threshold etc, where the person to be tested is given instructions on what to do and how to structure his/her efforts.

                                      For normal efforts like training, racing, free riding etc it seems a very unstable metric where you can draw no conclusion on what your heart/body is doing.

                                      EgikaE Brad_OlwinB 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                      • EgikaE Offline
                                        Egika Platinum Member @mlakis
                                        last edited by Egika

                                        @mlakis it depends on the kind of training or race. If it is of endurance type >10km run or >1h duration, ZoneSense is a super valuable tool to keep your effort in the aerobic zone. HR zones can be off as they differ from day to day.

                                        This is where the new technology really shines!
                                        For my Sunday morning 5k run it is not useful.

                                        t6, S6, Elementum Terra, Ambit 3 Sapphire, Spartan Ultra Copper, Traverse Alpha, S7 Graphite LE, S9B Ambassador, S9P Granite Blue Titanium, S9PP Titanium Sand, Vertical All Black, Race Titanium Charcoal,
                                        Race S All Black - TI Canary - Titanium Courtney

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                                        • pilleusP Offline
                                          pilleus
                                          last edited by

                                          I have watched the videos about ZoneSense and read many articles about the connections from a medical point of view. A very complex matter and a great, interesting project from Suunto!

                                          After some tests (several trainings of several sports on several days) I can say for my use that there are clear differences.

                                          For workouts such as running or kick biking, which tend to be in the higher heart rate range and where I don’t pause to take photos, ZoneSense seems to deliver comprehensible results.

                                          The same applies to cycling, but only on the fast bike without interruptions and often on the mountain bike during long uphills. Changing conditions such as long descents or interruptions often seem to influence ZoneSense and produce incomprehensible results in the live display.

                                          The live display also differs from the display in the app after training. I often have the short display in the VO2max range on the watch, which does not appear at all in the analysis. The time delay in the display seems to play a role here.

                                          The Polar H10 data source provides correct data, which is also displayed correctly in the Suunto fit file. Here, however, the IBI value (interbeat interval) is displayed as HRV, not the actual HRV.

                                          Quantified Self also displays the IBI values correctly and shows the correlation with the heart rate (I am attaching a screenshot and a correlating screenshot showing ZoneSense and heart rate from Suunto app). The HRV is not displayed and would have to be calculated separately from the FIT file.

                                          This is my personal experience with ZoneSense. An interesting function that provides additional insights into daily training and is certainly an interesting addition to training for real athletes.

                                          amCharts.png

                                          Screenshot_20241011-100044.jpg

                                          https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
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                                          Francesco PaganoF 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                          • Francesco PaganoF Offline
                                            Francesco Pagano Silver Members Bronze Member @pilleus
                                            last edited by

                                            @pilleus A bit off topic: I haven’t opened QS in a while and I was not aware of the IBI chart. Where can I find some guidance on how to read it?

                                            S9PP
                                            S5

                                            pilleusP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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