Suunto and Concept 2 indoor rowing

peringmar

@SamuelP
It’s a really good start, tried the app yesterday. If the developer reads this, really cool that you took on the project, much appreciated!

Connecting to the Concept2 was really smooth, as is the continous data synchronization.

Little feedback in case you read this:

Please store the data [Power, speed, stroke rate] so that they can be viewed in the graph on the mobile app.
Change s/500m -> minutes:500m, as a rower the s/500m cannot really be interpreted hehe
When exceeding 10000m distance turns to --.

raven

@peringmar said in Suunto and Concept 2 indoor rowing:

@SamuelP
It’s a really good start, tried the app yesterday. If the developer reads this, really cool that you took on the project, much appreciated!

Connecting to the Concept2 was really smooth, as is the continous data synchronization.

Little feedback in case you read this:

Please store the data [Power, speed, stroke rate] so that they can be viewed in the graph on the mobile app.

Change s/500m -> minutes:500m, as a rower the s/500m cannot really be interpreted hehe

When exceeding 10000m distance turns to --.

I always refer to pace as (time/500m) instead of (minutes/500m), partly as I feel it’s more accurate, and also my faster pace is under 2:00/500m (e.g. 1:42/500m) so it’s not multiple minutes.

Would storing pace and power graphs even be possible, or is that a limitation of the Indoor Rowing mode not having those data fields?

peringmar

Yeah you are right, with minutes/500m I meant what the Concept 2 is displaying, minutes:seconds, just like the 1:42/500m is 1 minute and 42 seconds.

runomatic

I just did a quick test with ErgSync.
I can either connect the iOS app to the rowing machine or ErgSync to the watch. Both don’t work at the same time. Is that right?

Then I rowed 500m for the test. The PM5 shows 500m, while the watch shows 620m. Conclusion: Well, it’s not quite there yet. But it’s a good start!

raven

@runomatic said in Suunto and Concept 2 indoor rowing:

I just did a quick test with ErgSync.
I can either connect the iOS app to the rowing machine or ErgSync to the watch. Both don’t work at the same time. Is that right?

Then I rowed 500m for the test. The PM5 shows 500m, while the watch shows 620m. Conclusion: Well, it’s not quite there yet. But it’s a good start!

Correct. The PM5 only has one bluetooth connection, so using it for either the watch or an app (ErgData, EXR, etc.) means it is not available for the other one.

I don’t know if this is possible, but if the watch could “rebroadcast” the signal (like some non-Suunto watches can broadcast HR), then in theory one could connect PM5 to watch, then watch to an app. Otherwise, you’d need to petition Concept2 to put out a new monitor that supports dual-bluetooth connections.

As for the watch showing 620m vs 500m, if the watch is using the internal accelerometers for pace (rather than a connection to the PM5) then that would explain it. Suunto always overestimates. I just did a 6km row a bit ago and Suunto thought it was 6.88km. Note you can edit distance in the session record.

TonyG

@raven I am not sure this is correct, my Garmin connects to the PM5 and at the same time I connect ErgData on a mobile and have a HR Belt connected to PM5. multiple devices connected using Bluetooth, i can also select between Ant + or Bluetooth for the HR but tend to just use Bluetooth. unless some strange bunny hopping of devices is happening, hence the “not sure if this is correct”

edit: after some reading the Garmin Watch may be using Ant+ and its likely the HR monitor is also using Ant+, please discard my comment above

runomatic

@raven said in Suunto and Concept 2 indoor rowing:

As for the watch showing 620m vs 500m, if the watch is using the internal accelerometers for pace (rather than a connection to the PM5) then that would explain it. Suunto always overestimates. I just did a 6km row a bit ago and Suunto thought it was 6.88km. Note you can edit distance in the session record.

I thought one of the purposes of ErgSync was to ensure that the distance matches the ergometer. Otherwise, what’s the point of the app?

Martin Lillepuu

Hi,

I am the developer of ErgSync and also on-and-off indoor rowing enthusiast for many years. I rented RowErg with PM5 for 3 months for home office to develop the SuuntoPlus app and also to accrue some rowing meters in the process. The plan is to add a Suunto watch as additional data recording option for rowing enthusiasts in addition to existing ErgData phone app (which I am also using for testing and comparing the results).

I mainly use Strava but Suunto platform also supports dozens of other sports and health platforms and services including their own built-in activity visualization and analysis features.

I am currently reviewing the initial feedback from you and will publish new version of ErgSync app soon. I already enabled logging for 4 main sensor readings from PM5 and updated ui to use icons in the dev version. I will keep you updated.

with best regards,
Martin

raven

@TonyG The HR connection to the PM5 is different from the FTMS (FiTness Machine Service) connection that gives rowing data. It’s the latter I believe can only be used by one thing. When people use the EXR app, for example, they can’t also use ErgData, but EXR can write to the C2 logbook.

If I’m wrong on this, then I’m happy to be corrected.

Some Garmin watches can get rowing data from the PM45 by ANT+ but not bluetooth as I understand.

raven

@runomatic said in Suunto and Concept 2 indoor rowing:

@raven said in Suunto and Concept 2 indoor rowing:

As for the watch showing 620m vs 500m, if the watch is using the internal accelerometers for pace (rather than a connection to the PM5) then that would explain it. Suunto always overestimates. I just did a 6km row a bit ago and Suunto thought it was 6.88km. Note you can edit distance in the session record.

I thought one of the purposes of ErgSync was to ensure that the distance matches the ergometer. Otherwise, what’s the point of the app?

Note I’m just guessing on “why” the discrepancy. It is likely simply a bug of some kind, but a bug of “writing the acceloremeter data not the PM5 data” seemed to make more sense than “taking the PM5 data and changing it”.

For me, the point of this app would be getting power data, not distance. I treat rowing like cycling, doing power targets for time durations, and have rowing power zones I pay more attention to than pace, and likewise, cumulative kJ rather than meters.

vlado

Just tried app, i used a inder rowing as a sport and added app via suunto plus…is that the way to go?
Connected quickly and it was in sync with machine all the time

Martin Lillepuu

Hi,

I just uploaded version 0.4 of ErgSync to SuuntoPlus store:

3 screens with all stats from PM5 (use bottom button to switch)
added logging of 4 main stats
switched to using icons
fixed distance display (4 > 5 digits), please test
display wrist HR

TODO

update graphics and descriptions in SuuntoPlus store for new version
improve the readability of data (restore text descriptions instead of icons - please give feedback)
looking into options of how to send the activity along with 4 logged stats to Concept2 LogBook (ErgData)

Martin Lillepuu

said in Suunto and Concept 2 indoor rowing:

Hi,

I just uploaded version 0.4 of ErgSync to SuuntoPlus store:

3 screens with all stats from PM5 (use bottom button to switch)

added logging of 4 main stats

switched to using icons

fixed distance display (4 > 5 digits), please test

TODO: update graphics in SuuntoPlus store for new look

Here are some photos of ErgSync v0.4 https://photos.app.goo.gl/LRGEyvKZCFhAu9oA7

peringmar

@Martin-Lillepuu Tested the update, and it is fantastic,
connecting/ data stream is still rock solid and now that the main stats are visible in the graphs on the mobile app, the app is pretty complete (at least for me), I appreciate the work you have put into it!

I will be testing how the app works when switching between different rowing machines at the rowing club.

Also, don’t know how the speed in the graph is logged in apps like Erglog but if it would be possible to show the speed/500m as the rowing machine shows it on the mobile app graph, as it currently looks like to be in seconds/500m.

Sportsfreund

In my case, I absolutely need a connection between the ErgData app and my smartphone to have my data in the C2 logbook. Therefore, there’s no way to connect the Suunto watch to the PM5. What I’m requesting is a connection between the C2 account and the Suunto account so that the data can be synchronized with the Suunto app after each race. Only then would the Suunto app be able to properly evaluate the rowing sessions.

Sportsfreund

I just tested it at 10k. It works well. It’s just a mirror of the PM5, though. Unfortunately, the values themselves aren’t transferred to Suunto. My 10k reading became 10.5k and had to be corrected before saving.

John Hellerstedt

Gave it a shot on suunto vertical yesterday really pleased to get the actual power data pulled in with HR

The automatic detection/ connection to the PM5 is nice, but potentially not nice if you can’t confirm which unit you’re connecting to in a room with a dozen ergs being used at once.

Jurjen

It’s a bit of a crafty solution, but you could use an app like boatcoachapp with USB cable support to track and upload to the Concept2 logbook. But also hoping there will be a better option. And thanks for your developments!

peringmar

@Martin-Lillepuu

Did some intervals the other day, and when in recovery between the intervals the last recorded power and stroke rate seems to be continuously logged until the next interval starts. Assuming this is a PM5 thing as its data also looks to be locked, but maybe the data is on a different data stream or those values can be set to zero for the Suunto logging during recovery time?

peringmar

Oh yea, and another thing, when switching between PM5 workouts, the distance always reflects the last distance from the PM5,

Example, warm up row in “just row” shows distance for that, then switching to intervals, there is a new distance, then cool down row in “Just row” will be the last logged distance that then gets sent to the mobile app.

A solution could be to have a dedicated distance variable on the watch app that continuously adds the distances during the whole workout for later sending.