Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?
-
@Brad_Olwin Interesting. Coros improved their MIP screen between Apex 2 pro and Apex 4, one can clearly see it and at least for my eyes it looks better/brighter than Vertical 1 also. But not an expert, so might be just confirmation bias or smth.
-
@aiv4r backlighting could be different but I doubt the screen tech is improved. We were also told MIP is more expensive now and very few suppliers.
-
@Brad_Olwin I heard that too at the time, a colleague have an Apex 4 and the MIP is really, really good, compared to my 9PP it really looks great, I unfortunatly don’t have a Vertical to compare, but honestly i don’t see why we would need better than that
-
I am MIP all the way, but, realistically, I’m quite certain Suunto is done with them. They’ve all but said so. I think it’s pure economics at this point.
@aiv4r How are you finding the Apex 4? Is it really more comfortable than the Vertical? You mentioned it’s less chunky, but does it wear better on the wrist? The dimensions are pretty similar.
And what about the Coros ecosystem? I had a Pace 2 years ago and just couldn’t get over the immature visuals and UI/UX. Has it improved? Are there any actual good watch faces these days?
@brad_olwin I think you are correct that MIP tech hasn’t necessarily improved since the SV1. I believe the difference more has to do with the distance from the screen to the glass. The solar panel on the SV1 recesses the screen a bit, decreasing clarity at off angles. The Apex 4 obviously doesn’t have this.
-
@duffman19 It is quite nice and comfortable to wear, but I never got used to wearing Vertical 24/7, so for me it is way better, but that is very subjective. It also feels a bit like a toy watch, but also feels lighter for the same reason.
Design-wise it is a disaster still, graphics are bad and boring, watch faces are terrible, they have a lot of them, but I barely can find one I like.
The app itself has its own pros and cons, I like that “effort pace” for example feels a bit more integrated than NGP in Suunto (I can easily see Effort Pace graph throughout the run, while I cannot find a way to do that with NGP in Suunto app). -
@aiv4r NGP and AvgNGP can be added as a data field in custom sport modes. I use these, easy to see during the entire run.
-
@Brad_Olwin yes I am aware and I started to use it also, but I ment in the app after the run is uploaded.
Suunto Race 2 (Titanium Trail)
Suunto Vertical (Titanium Solar Forest) -
@aiv4r said in Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?:
@UjcoCZ said in Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?:
I like how Suunto handles the power-saving screen—it still shows the map, so I don’t always have to wake the watch to full display.
Can I get more explanation on this? haven’t seen
On the Garmin, if the display is in dim mode while navigating, I can’t see anything and have to turn my wrist; on the Suunto, the basic map is still clearly visible in dim mode, so I don’t always have to turn my wrist for a quick check of the route. On the Garmin, this is further complicated by a very poor light sensor. such magic before. AMOLED both.
-
@aiv4r said in Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?:
@Brad_Olwin yes I am aware and I started to use it also, but I ment in the app after the run is uploaded.
Agreed, for me I use S+ TrainingPeaks Run and you will have NGP in the app after the run, this will allow NGP to show in the lap table.
-
@Ecki-D. said in Is there still demand for a modern MIP endurance watch?:
Still, I think MIP continues to offer real advantages for an endurance-focused outdoor watch: battery life,
I read the other day, that the battery saving in daylight will be eaten by the need of a backlight in the dark…
Suunto Race S
Garmin Epix Pro -
@2b2bff depending on how you use it. My backlight comes on only when I press a button on my Vertical 1. And that doesn’t happen often.
-
@2b2bff I don’t need a backlight in the dark with MIP Vertical 1, since I’m wearing a headlamp while camping / racing whenever I look at my watch it’s lit up by the headlamp, further saving battery power on my watch.
-
@Ecki-D. I jumped from my loved 9PP to the Apex 4 last Chirstmas. For me, the Apex 4 ticks all the boxes: it basically embodies what a Vertical S should have been. Very happy with the change (bug free, perfect swimming…) , particularly now that the 9PP has been formally dropped from future updates.
-
@2b2bff I use a lot the SV1 in the dark, I do a lots of trail running in the dark and this not really true. I do not have backlight activated, as @brunoh and @litchimonster have said, its is not really necessary to always use the backlight, so, no extra battery consumption.
For me the ideal is the possibility of backlight only in activity with wrist movement for MIP screens, Right now, in the SV, if you activate raise to wake backlight it always works, in all situations, during the day and during activity (I know there is a light sensor but the watch lights up in situations it shouldn’t, increasing the battery consumption a lot). In my experience, if you have raise to wake backlight only in activity, and you do a “speedy” activity, it is better because you see the watch faster and you do not need to point the headlamp to it.
As an example, at home we have 1 SV1 (no backlight only in activity), 1 S9P (no backlight only in activity) and 1 S5P (backlight only in activity), I use the SV1 and my older son used to use the S5P but now uses the S9B and his only complain with the switch was that there was not backlight with arm movement during activity and it was harder to read in dark/night activities. -
@fv4500 Sounds great! Maybe that’s the way to go for me too. I use runalyze a lot and so there won’t be a lose in Training history while switching to coros. I really love Suunto on the other side and who knows, maybe there will be an alternative.
-
In my opinion, there is a place on the market, but only for a relatively small group of people, for an uncompromising outdoor watch, but this is definitely too narrow a group of potential customers for Suunto, or even any other manufacturer, to be particularly interested.
What I mean is MIP, five buttons, the ability to use it entirely without the touchscreen, and full offline functionality – both on the watch and in the app. And clean, intuitive, and responsive maps, compass, as well as the whole interface.
And additionally, a few tools that would be desirable in this type of watch: compass access while following a GPX route or using multiple navigation tools at the same time (currently only one tool can be used at a time); the ability to use routes saved in the Logbook without syncing with the phone; a more intuitive, native Live Track function; night mode (Red light), and increased distance tolerance from the planned route for the Off Route function.
But let’s be honest – the chances of a watch like this hitting the market are slim to none. People actually prefer smartwatches: “scores” instead of precise data for analysis, steps, floors, challenges, navigation like Google Maps, music, payments and other gadgets. It’s a bit like most people who buy Arc’teryx or Patagonia jackets just to wear around the city. And you could say the same about a large group of Garmin users – this partly explains their position on the market.
-
@maszop It looks a lot like like a Garmin enduro 3 no ?
-
@Elipsus Too sluggish and too many “scores” and other smart-nonsense.
Maybe future Enduro 4?
-
I do think mips is superior for sportwatches.
My last watch with mips (forerunner 935) I only had to charge once every 2 weeks (until garmin introduced a bug when they added Galileo support. Since the I needed to charge every week regardless which setting I used)
My 2 last watches with amoled (forerunner 965and race s) both need to charge every 3 to 5 days (with the race s doing slightly better with more accurate gnns settings)
I find mips beter readable. I know the gadgetblogger dcrainmaker assures amoled is perfectly visible, but he makes a picture of the watch in direct sunlight and at home concludes to picture is very clear. But I wear sunglasses , have sweat in my eyes and sunscreen and running in and out shade/direct sunlight. No, it isn’t very visible.
Thankfully the raise to wake works better on my suunto. There is a slight delay but the wake always comes. On the garmin more than half of the time the raise wasn’t recognized. Never had this issue with watches with mip screens.
(Yes, I could turn on aod, but then I have to charge even more. And I don’t want to charge often. Charging is bad for the battery. My forerunner 935 lasted almost 6 years, and I hope my race s can match that)But having said that… it’s the same as with smartphones. There are people complaining they rather have a thicker phone with a bigger battery than an ultra thin phone. But thin phones sell well. So either those people just fell for the better looks of a thin phone or it is just a very small, but loud group.
-
I used LCD and MIP watches for a long time but after switching to AMOLED I am not going back. Yes, it is nice to have always on display in some situations, for example when riding a bike, but at least for running and similar activities the wrist activation works well enough.
When an MIP display is combined with sapphire crystal there are reflections and the contrast is too low, and it makes it difficult to read with my aging eyes. It is especially difficult for the eyes on a map screen with a lot of fine details in a condition with not very bright diffused light or in a condition with variable light with patches of sun like in a forest. I agree that MIP displays are great in direct sunlight but unfortunately for me it is relatively rare for me to run in a high alpine environment with strong sunlight and much more common to run in a forest.
AMOLED displays are much easier to read.
