System update – PXDZ.201119.005.A1
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@fazel RD costs a lot but yes I do agree
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@fazel lots of published research in sport physiology etc. is free, and this is the approach e.g. used by Runalyze (they even link to the research on which their computed metrics are based). Things are probably more complex in places like the US where those same ideas can be covered by patents.
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@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos I don’t know if that’s a great litmus test. If it’s about looking at forums just look at this forum to see how important sensor support is. Watch DC rainmaker and chase the summits reviews on the S7 and how frustrating not having sensor support is. These are two people who get thousands on eyeballs monthly on their content. They are huge drivers of smart watch products. Also think about it this way having sensor support in the app isn’t going to drive away any customer but not having it will. Has anyone on Reddit or another forum said I won’t buy that watch because it has Bluetooth sensor support? Well if that’s the case I hate to tell them that WearOs already has that feature through google fit so I guess they aren’t buying a wearos device anyway.
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@pavel-samokha I’m fine being shown to be wrong and admitting it. But let’s play this through. Suunto known for sports performance and already having a well established training platforms is developing a new sunnto training app for a wear os device under their own brand. Yet they don’t port over all the features that already exist within their own sports watches. Isn’t it reasonable to discern that those features not ported over were don’t so for a specific reason? If not then why not just work to duplicate all the same features?
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@brotzfrog10 correct.
To be honest that was also one of the Suunto fears when launching this from a tester perpective. That people would demand more in terms of an expectation
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@brotzfrog10 said in System update – PXDZ.201119.005.A1:
Isn’t it reasonable to discern that those features not ported over were don’t so for a specific reason? If not then why not just work to duplicate all the same features?
As simple as that, because S7 is completely different platform from S9/…
What may seem “just work to duplicate” from end-user perspective may be really complex goal to achieve from development perspective. -
@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in System update – PXDZ.201119.005.A1:
To be honest that was also one of the Suunto fears when launching this from a tester perpective. That people would demand more in terms of an expectation
Sweaty flashbacks on those early Spartan months?
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@brotzfrog10 said in System update – PXDZ.201119.005.A1:
Sunnto should be building on their brand name not undercutting what they are know for.
Isn’t outdoor adventure one of the main things Suunto is known for? Both my compasses are Suunto, I originally bought the Suunto Ambit 3 to go hiking and two of my friends who work as adventure guides wear Suunto Core watches. I would have thought the mapping and navigation capabilities that they’ve been working on, on the S7 fit perfectly within the Suunto brand. This may just be me, but to me Suunto as a brand has always been about going out on adventures in the mountains/forest. Not saying I don’t wish I had ble hrm, I just don’t agree that they aren’t building on their brand name.
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@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos there’s I think always going to be that issue within the tech industry period, especially with smart watches and mobile devices with how frequently features are added and it has quickly become a features arm raise between the top brands. However sensor support isn’t the same as EKG support or an SPo2 sensor (which are all hardware specific issues and probably still not ready for prime time anyway when it comes to actual daily use). However Bluetooth sensor support has been on watches for close to a decade now. This is an extremely basic feature and one that is software driven. Plus code already exists for how to create it for WearOs as evidenced by the several other apps who have it. It’s kind of like a missing the forest for the trees kind of thing. Basically nail the basics first then start trying to find your niche in the WearOs market (which I still think that niche should be the only real sports performance smart watch on the market). Sunnto can disagree and say it’s soccer moms and Fitbit users essential they want to target and that’s fine but again sensor support isn’t going to drive those customers away but will simply bring in others.
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@brotzfrog10 the s7 was build as the first watch to utilize that low power processor and give you a good run time on wearOS.
Using BT is using the full processor. They didn’t want that. The specs are clear.
while we can debate with emprical examples who is wrong or right about the target market and what money it makes, Suunto should know better where to move via their data, income , sales etc.
Community Manager / Admin @Suunto
Creator of Quantified-Self.io
youtube.com/c/dimitrioskanellopoulos
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https://www.strava.com/athletes/7586105 -
@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said in System update – PXDZ.201119.005.A1:
@brotzfrog10 the s7 was build as the first watch to utilize that low power processor and give you a good run time on wearOS.
This may have been covered already, apologies if it has. When using the sports app on the S7. Is it running only on the low power processor? If so, would supporting BLE devices no longer allow this? I had trouble understanding the power consumption problem before, but if this is the issue, I understand.
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@Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos I appreciate your explanation for that for sure. However my concern with that statement is that if someone doesn’t want to use the sensor they don’t have to therefore not effecting battery life. This isn’t something that needs to be running in the background even when not being used. Once again it goes to opening the product to the broadest market possible. Plus back to your comment about Reddit users looking for a watch like the sunnto 7 along with your soccer mom comment. Watches in that market don’t have a 50mm diameter. I honestly believe (again my opinion) that a watch that size isn’t on the wishlist for a daily soccer mom and regular working woman). Sales of other smart watches bare that out. Other WearOs watches, Samsung, Fitbit, Apple and all Garmin save for the Fenix line are much smaller then The S7 and those are the watches driving sales. The 50mm and bigger watches are more niche amongst sports driven individuals (again look at fenix line, your own sunnto5, and 9, and the higher end of the forerunner line).
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@brotzfrog10 DcGarminMoneyMaker… well, if a watch is not for triathlon or zwift is not good enough for him.
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@Aleksander-H said in System update – PXDZ.201119.005.A1:
This may have been covered already, apologies if it has. When using the sports app on the S7. Is it running only on the low power processor? If so, would supporting BLE devices no longer allow this? I had trouble understanding the power consumption problem before, but if this is the issue, I understand.
It moves away from the coprocessor if e.g. you use the map, or if you receive notifications.
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@Aleksander-H Yes. There are some info and interviews where they talk about the S7 and how use the low processor. Never done before.
Tu comunidad Suunto en Telegram: https://t.me/suuntocommunity (spanish)
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@Bulkan said in System update – PXDZ.201119.005.A1:
@Aleksander-H Yes. There are some info and interviews where they talk about the S7 and how use the low processor. Never done before.
Sounds like complex/impressive work. I wonder how easily the Suunto app can be ported to new chipsets in the future as it sounds like their doing pretty low level stuff.
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@Aleksander-H that is a good call out. If the sunnto app can’t run on the main processor therefore eliminating Bluetooth sensor support then it essentially is what it is and sounds like there’s no way to upgrade the unit without a new watch being released. (Assuming the smaller processor just can’t connect to sensors). If it’s just a may drain the battery faster if used issue, again let the consumer decide how they want to use the watch. It’s like with Suuntos fusedtrack. The option is there to extend battery life but if all that mattered was more battery sunnto would just eliminate all other GPS sampling options and only have fusedtrack as the available option. Sunnto doesn’t do that for obvious reasons and leaves it up to the consumer to decide which is more important extended battery life or accuracy.
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@brotzfrog10 said in System update – PXDZ.201119.005.A1:
@Aleksander-H that is a good call out.
Wasn’t really trying to call out anything. It was meant mostly as an observation of how impressive the work they’ve done is. As for the porting my question was more about porting to future chipsets such as the 4100 and whatever else the future brings.
If the sunnto app can’t run on the main processor therefore eliminating Bluetooth sensor support then it essentially is what it is and sounds like there’s no way to upgrade the unit without a new watch being released.
Well, the map/navigation is part of the suunto app, and apparently is running on the regular processor.
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@isazi so what a second it moves away from the co processor when using maps which would be realistically only used for longer duration activities right? That’s just my opinion from how I use maps on my own watch. I’ve never used maps for anything under a couple of hours because what would be the point otherwise. So essentially the longest duration activity type is moved away from the power efficient processor to the more energy draining processor. The one activity that longer battery life would benefit is moved to the part of the watch that drains the battery faster. Assuming I’m correct in this can you see how that logic doesn’t make sense? Especially in logic of the the earlier statement saying suuntos training app was built on the smaller co processor to save battery and hence is a possible reason why Bluetooth sensor connectivity isn’t possible.
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@brotzfrog10 said in System update – PXDZ.201119.005.A1:
@isazi So essentially the longest duration activity type is moved away from the power efficient processor to the more energy draining processor. The one activity that longer battery life would benefit is moved to the part of the watch that drains the battery faster.
I assume the whole point of showing a white arrow on a black background after a few seconds is to allow the app to return to the low power processor. So you’d only be using the regular processor when actively looking at the map.
