Why I've shelved my Peak for a 9

DMytro

@miniforklift I mean the non baro version, but alright

MiniForklift

@dmytro said in Why I've shelved my Peak for a 9:

@miniforklift I mean the non baro version, but alright

Oh, sorry. Yeah well the same seems to apply for the Baro version too, something Suunto is aware of and working on

DMytro

@miniforklift I hope there is some research going into non baro algorithms as well, I think a lot can be done with algorithms to compensate for noise from GPS data.

Soylent Yellow

@freeheeler said in Why I've shelved my Peak for a 9:

@foxster said in Why I've shelved my Peak for a 9:

Of course, the ideal would be a Peak with a larger display. Hopefully that’s something Suunto is considering

would be my potential next watch

It will be called “Ambit 4”

Brad_Olwin

@dmytro I think that the non-baro versions are being improved. I can get very good altitude gains from non-baro watches on big climbs. Eventually, when GPS altitude is more reliable we can do away with the baro sensor for altitude as it has problems too. Running into major head winds with a baro gave me at least 5-fold greater ascent than the actual ascent.

DMytro

@brad_olwin you mean improved in general or in an upcoming releases? Sure, I’m more than satisfied with the performance of my watch, the only problem for now are hill repeats with undercounting and cloudy days on flat terrain with overcounting.

Brad_Olwin

@dmytro both I hope. I imagine that with antenna and satellite improvements this will happen.

freeheeler

@brad_olwin
I would always go for a baro version.
I’ve never had issues with gusts so far… only with my sweaty forearm

cosme.costa

@brad_olwin I think that if you wear the watch in the left arm won’t be much issues with wind, the sensor is less exposed.

Brad_Olwin

@cosme-costa said in Why I've shelved my Peak for a 9:

@brad_olwin I think that if you wear the watch in the left arm won’t be much issues with wind, the sensor is less exposed.

I was wearing on the left arm, an S9baro gave huge overestimates because a very strong wind was blowing directly into the sensor. I have had this happen more than once. It dies not matter how the watch is worn.

So far this has not occurred with the S9Peak.

sky-runner

@dmytro The error is the same with the bug hills - it is just relatively small and therefore not noticeable. Basically, it loses a fixed amount of elevation gain on every single climb no matter how short or long it is. If there is only one large climb the error is relatively tiny compared to the overall elevation gain. However when there are a lot of small climbs, for example when running on rolling hills, the accumulated error may be significant. My estimate is that Suunto 9 Baro loses 3-7 meters (10-20 feet) per climb. The non baro version loses even more.

TyreseJ4

@suzzlo Garmin is light years ahead of there competitors and I suspect they always will be. With that said, it’s likely that you’ll always have a reason to use Garmin. If you’re committed to Suunto (and that’s fine), you should probably stop using competitor devices since Suunto will likely always be behind or missing some feature that you like on a Garmin.

sky-runner

@tyresej4 said in Why I've shelved my Peak for a 9:

Garmin is light years ahead of there competitors and I suspect they always will be.

That’s why, I think, Suunto needs to look for niches that Garmin neglects.

For example, two years of owning a Garmin has made it clear to me that Garmin, for the most part doesn’t understand, trail and ultra running. Garmin focuses either on road running, cycling, triathlon, etc or on slower activities like walking and hiking. But trail running has a number of challenges that Garmin deals very poorly with. The same probably applies to sports like MTB. That includes, challenging conditions for GPS reception and very dynamic pace that throws Garmin’s instant pace algorithm off and makes instant pace borderline unusable.

Years ago Suunto Ambit watches were super popular in my area among trail runners. When I was at a start of any serious trail running race I can guarantee that at least third if not half of all competitors would have an Ambit, and there were good reasons for that. Those people, for the most part, didn’t care about fitness features of Garmin, but needed a robust watch with bulletproof reliability and GPS that was accurate on wooded mountainous trails.

That is the niche that I think Suunto has mostly given up despite the fact that trail running is still growing rapidly. If Suunto really focused on trail running and especially mountain/trail adventure/ultra racing, it could shine again.

Just out of my head, features that would matter:

Beat in class GPS accuracy.
Tracking aid stations / checkpoints with remaining distance and progress against planned splits. That should also include tracking remaining ascent / descent to the next aid station or checkpoint. For ultra running it is essential to be able to split the entire distance into smaller segments and focus on each one separately.
Accurate navigation directions. Having a map isn’t as essential as long as there is an easy way to generate/edit directions in advance and upload them to the watch. Suunto already had this for the most part, but a large screen / desktop route editing is needed.
A function like Climb Pro or Hill Splitter that allows to track progress during climbing / descending
Tracking timing of hydration and fueling.

Personally, I’d also really like to see a reliable implementation of Strava live segments. This is something that Garmin has implemented very poorly, especially for trail running segments.

The list above is probably just a slice of features that other trail runners would find essential. If Suunto could again position itself as a premier brand for trail / ultra / adventure running and racing, I think that would be great for is future.

TheGuyFromTheSummit

@sky-runner I completely understand your point, and unfortunately I have to say, that in my opinion Suunto right now is also behind in trailrunning.
Besides the snap to route function there is nothing a Garmin cannot not do (or even do better).
I love Suunto but the unreliable data and GPS problems might make me switch to Garmin (when my S9B dies).

MiniForklift

@sky-runner said in Why I've shelved my Peak for a 9:

For example, two years of owning a Garmin has made it clear to me that Garmin, for the most part doesn’t understand, trail and ultra running. Garmin focuses either on road running, cycling, triathlon, etc or on slower activities like walking and hiking. But trail running has a number of challenges that Garmin deals very poorly with. The same probably applies to sports like MTB. That includes, challenging conditions for GPS reception and very dynamic pace that throws Garmin’s instant pace algorithm off and makes instant pace borderline unusable.

FWIW My training partner switched to the Garmin Enduro from his S9B a good few months ago. He’s primarily a trail ultrarunner who averages around 100-130km/week and is winning many of the ultra’s he enters… if he doesn’t win he’s usually on the podium

According to his experiences of using both watches the Enduro is way ahead of the S9B and there’s actually nothing that the S9B does better than the Enduro. Altitude and elevation gain is more accurate (he runs in a group at least a couple of times a week where his S9B was usually considerably down in vert), Strava Live Segments are flawless, better GPS in heavy woodland or cloudy/overcast days and obviously better battery life

Maybe for some there’s personal preference on a few things, but when you have a top calibre runner that’s extensively used both watches with no particular bias to brand you shouldn’t write off his opinion. Maybe some of the cheaper Garmin watches don’t cater for trail or ultra runners but it seems clear to me that the Enduro most certainly does

markytarky

@theguyfromthesummit, I tend to disagree. I have the opposite experience. My Garmin F6 provides messy data (e.g., training status - one big mess once you hit the trail you, of course, have lower VOmax and immediately I’m unproductive then I’m running on flat and I’m productive, etc.) compared S9P, but that’s individual for each person. Garmin gives you many features that you are impressed about at the start, and then you never use it, at least that’s my experience, e.g. find my phone - never working correctly, wallet - you scared that they get hit again by hackers, music - disappears from the watch, etc.

TheGuyFromTheSummit

@markytarky I mainly struggle with GPS accuracy. My S9B (even after replacing the GPS unit) is strongly off at at least 20% of my runs.
So far I don’t know if this affects the distance.

markytarky

@theguyfromthesummit I’m sorry to hear that, but that’s “One of” cases. There are many things on S9B which are troubled, but GPS is not usually that thing.

Foxster

Talking about the Garmin Enduro…There’s quite a Suunto-like look to this watch.

Chunky, solid construction. Large, flat display. Big round buttons. Polished metal bezel. Long battery life.

The other Garmin watches have a cheaper look to them, kinda Casio-like.

TrailEyes

@miniforklift Your trail runner friend’s experience is perfectly valid, and I don’t doubt it for a second. But to reinforce my long-held belief that it’s not about finding the “best watch” but rather the “best watch for you,” I have to recall this blog post from an ultra runner, who sold his Enduro as quickly as he could once he tested it because of its shortcomings for his needs:

http://www.ultrakrautrunning.com/2021/12/gear-review-garmin-enduro-gps-watch.html?m=1

This article doesn’t mean everyone would hate that watch, or that your friend is indicative of everyone loving the watch, but just that athletes need to find the right combination of GPS accuracy, battery life, elevation data, impact durability, etc. that fits their time out on the trails.