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Suunto vertical ascent/ descent totally incorrect

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  • M Offline
    maszop Bronze Member @The_77
    last edited by 6 Feb 2024, 19:03

    @The_77 In the case of Suunto 9 Baro (and older watches, and watches from G), the problem occurs rarely. Very common in newer models. So there should be room for improvement.

    F 1 Reply Last reply 6 Feb 2024, 19:06 Reply Quote 0
    • F Offline
      freeheeler @maszop
      last edited by 6 Feb 2024, 19:06

      @maszop
      we’ve had different issues with the S9B that I am really really happy Suunto got rid of them

      living sideways

      M 1 Reply Last reply 6 Feb 2024, 19:08 Reply Quote 0
      • M Offline
        maszop Bronze Member @freeheeler
        last edited by 6 Feb 2024, 19:08

        @freeheeler I understand progress and new features, but breaking things that work well is unacceptable.

        I 1 Reply Last reply 6 Feb 2024, 20:46 Reply Quote 0
        • I Offline
          isazi Moderator @maszop
          last edited by isazi 2 Jun 2024, 20:49 6 Feb 2024, 20:46

          @maszop the Baro was not working well at all, in fact it was much worse than new watches, being not only susceptible to wind but also rain and water. And the Ambit had the hole on the bottom of the watch, getting crazy if you did sweat.

          Edit: not to minimize the issue, I had it today for example, 35 meters of ascent when it should have been 0, because of code yellow winds

          Watch: Suunto Vertical Ti

          Blog: isazi's home

          M 1 Reply Last reply 6 Feb 2024, 20:53 Reply Quote 1
          • M Offline
            maszop Bronze Member @isazi
            last edited by maszop 2 Jun 2024, 21:32 6 Feb 2024, 20:53

            @isazi I used 9 Baro for a long time and then 9PP and Vertical. The same routes, similar weather, many times the same crossings. My results are clear. 9 Baro calculated the total elevation gain correctly in most cases. Newer ones almost always add at least some 500-1000m for routes of 15-20km distance and 1500-2500m of elevation gain.

            Edit:
            One from many examples:
            9Baro, bad weather - 18.06km, 1860m total ascent;
            9Baro, good weather (slightly shorter version) - 1740m total ascent (Garmin Instinct, the same hike - 1708m ascent);
            9PP, good weather - 18.19 km, 1763m total ascent;
            Vertical bad weather - 17.99km, 2302m total ascent (9Baro with the person I hiked with - the same bad weather - 1840m ascent).

            B 1 Reply Last reply 7 Feb 2024, 13:58 Reply Quote 0
            • B Offline
              Brad_Olwin Moderator @maszop
              last edited by 7 Feb 2024, 13:58

              @maszop said in Suunto vertical ascent/ descent totally incorrect:

              @isazi I used 9 Baro for a long time and then 9PP and Vertical. The same routes, similar weather, many times the same crossings. My results are clear. 9 Baro calculated the total elevation gain correctly in most cases. Newer ones almost always add at least some 500-1000m for routes of 15-20km distance and 1500-2500m of elevation gain.

              This is your use case, not a general phenomenon so I disagree. It is very windy where I live and very, very rare to have ascent/descent errors.
              Have you tried cleaning the sensor area? Have you performed soft or hard reset? My experience is with2 different S9PP, 2 Race watches and 2 Vertical watches.

              Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing

              P M 2 Replies Last reply 7 Feb 2024, 15:07 Reply Quote 2
              • P Offline
                pilleus @Brad_Olwin
                last edited by 7 Feb 2024, 15:07

                @Brad_Olwin said in Suunto vertical ascent/ descent totally incorrect:

                so I disagree

                +1

                I never had problems with a Suunto watch and wrong ascent/descent data. Okay, the Spartans record a little less than the actual watches, but only if there are long flat passages with only a little up and down.

                https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
                Suunto Vertical Black Lime
                Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
                Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

                M 1 Reply Last reply 7 Feb 2024, 17:06 Reply Quote 0
                • M Offline
                  maszop Bronze Member @Brad_Olwin
                  last edited by maszop 2 Jul 2024, 15:16 7 Feb 2024, 15:07

                  @Brad_Olwin Do you hike in the mountains with many steep climbs, without trails, i.e. relatively slowly? You’ve previously written about skiing and cross-country running, and these are completely different activities that may not have these problems. The problem is a lot of erroneous altitude measurements that are too fast - pulsating altitude readings that do not correspond to the ascents or descent.

                  These sample routes given earlier are approximately 18 km, 1800 m ascents and approximately 8-9 hours long.
                  With these types of routes, the error is usually 500-1000 m more than it should be.

                  F B 2 Replies Last reply 7 Feb 2024, 15:57 Reply Quote 0
                  • F Offline
                    freeheeler @maszop
                    last edited by 7 Feb 2024, 15:57

                    @maszop
                    I know what you mean and I saw this kind of measurements when road cycling. it is the activity where you point the sensor directly into the wind.
                    it doesn’t happen if you slightly cover the sensor holes.

                    I have put my watches in many different situations and cycling headwind is the worst. actually it is the only bad situation in my experience. there’s a workaround for it to put the watch on the handlebar.
                    so in my opinion it is the best compromise across all kind of sports.

                    living sideways

                    P 1 Reply Last reply 7 Feb 2024, 17:22 Reply Quote 1
                    • M Offline
                      maszop Bronze Member @pilleus
                      last edited by 7 Feb 2024, 17:06

                      I may be wrong, but I think it could be easily solved using the same principle as calculating distance based on GPS data.
                      To simplify, the position is recorded using GNSS every second, which gives 32,400 measurements for 9 hours. If all these points were connected with a line, the same absurd results would be obtained. This does not happen because before calculating the distance, the route is simplified and fewer points are used.
                      By the same principle, it would be possible to remove such noise from redundant measurements. It seems that these measurements are still too many for “slower” sports.

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • P Offline
                        pilleus @freeheeler
                        last edited by 7 Feb 2024, 17:22

                        @freeheeler said in Suunto vertical ascent/ descent totally incorrect:

                        it is the activity where you point the sensor directly into the wind.

                        With the Vertical it is impossible to have the sensors in the wind when mounted on a handle bar, because the openings of the sensor point towards the driver and not forward (below the Sunnto logo).

                        Or are these not the openings for the sensor?

                        https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
                        Suunto Vertical Black Lime
                        Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
                        Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

                        F 1 Reply Last reply 7 Feb 2024, 18:00 Reply Quote 1
                        • F Offline
                          freeheeler @pilleus
                          last edited by 7 Feb 2024, 18:00

                          @pilleus
                          absolutely correct.
                          I usually wear my watch on the wrist, even for cycling and mtb. I do put watches on the handle bar for testing purposes. depending on the speeds, position of my hand, headwinds, gloves, jacket sleeves etc. there can be differences in total ascent and they are visible on the graph similar as in @maszop ‘s graph.

                          living sideways

                          P 1 Reply Last reply 7 Feb 2024, 18:52 Reply Quote 1
                          • P Offline
                            pilleus @freeheeler
                            last edited by pilleus 2 Jul 2024, 18:53 7 Feb 2024, 18:52

                            @freeheeler

                            I never had issues with a Suunto or other watch while cycling. Neither on the handle bar nor on the wrist. And I am on the bike every day and often have 500 to 1000 meters of ascent.

                            An easy way to check it is in Strava the auto correction or a gpx viewer.

                            I’m glad to have no problems with ascent/descent. 👍

                            https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
                            Suunto Vertical Black Lime
                            Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
                            Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

                            F 1 Reply Last reply 7 Feb 2024, 22:04 Reply Quote 1
                            • F Offline
                              freeheeler @pilleus
                              last edited by 7 Feb 2024, 22:04

                              @pilleus
                              do you have a bike with dropper bars?

                              living sideways

                              P 1 Reply Last reply 7 Feb 2024, 22:44 Reply Quote 0
                              • P Offline
                                pilleus @freeheeler
                                last edited by 7 Feb 2024, 22:44

                                @freeheeler

                                No, why should I torture myself? If I want to go fast, I ride a velomobile or a fast recumbent bike … 😊

                                https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
                                Suunto Vertical Black Lime
                                Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
                                Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

                                F 1 Reply Last reply 7 Feb 2024, 23:03 Reply Quote 1
                                • F Offline
                                  freeheeler @pilleus
                                  last edited by 7 Feb 2024, 23:03

                                  @pilleus
                                  you made me notice that I wasn’t precise enough. on the roadbike the hand position is often different to any other bike handlebar and hence the position of the sensor holes…

                                  living sideways

                                  P 1 Reply Last reply 8 Feb 2024, 06:12 Reply Quote -1
                                  • P Offline
                                    pilleus @freeheeler
                                    last edited by 8 Feb 2024, 06:12

                                    @freeheeler

                                    Yes, but I think it doesn’t matter. On my recumbent bike and trike I often let my arm hang down and the sensor holes are directly in the wind. No negative impact so far for the reading of the barometric pressure.

                                    https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
                                    Suunto Vertical Black Lime
                                    Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
                                    Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • P Offline
                                      pilleus
                                      last edited by 8 Feb 2024, 07:31

                                      Strong winds can affect the air pressure around the sensor, which can result in an incorrect barometric altitude reading. Typically, an increase in wind speed results in lower air pressure, while a decrease in wind speed can result in higher air pressure.

                                      If I have the severe weather alarm switched on in my Suunto watches, then warning messages should constantly come during the changes if the wind so often affects the barometric altitude measurement.

                                      Has anyone noticed this yet? 💨 🌪

                                      https://www.instagram.com/moves.are.life/
                                      Suunto Vertical Black Lime
                                      Suunto 9 Peak Pro Black
                                      Suunto Spartan Ultra Stealth Titanium

                                      F M 2 Replies Last reply 8 Feb 2024, 07:35 Reply Quote 0
                                      • F Offline
                                        freeheeler @pilleus
                                        last edited by 8 Feb 2024, 07:35

                                        @pilleus
                                        yes and no.
                                        yes, I have received several storm alarms since I have my Vertical.
                                        no, it never happened to me due to winds, because it needs a certain pressure drop over a specific time

                                        living sideways

                                        S 1 Reply Last reply 8 Feb 2024, 07:38 Reply Quote 1
                                        • S Offline
                                          Swaddy61 Silver Members @freeheeler
                                          last edited by 8 Feb 2024, 07:38

                                          @freeheeler Ditto - Several storm alarms with SV when there have been storms coming, and none at any other time.

                                          SV Ti All Black, Coros Apex Pro, Ambit 3 Peak, Ambit 3 Sport (sold), Ambit 2 (Sold), X10 Mi (Retired), Quest (Sold), T3 (Sold), T6C (Retired as unfixable - Suunto gave me a big discount on Ambit 2!), Polar H10 belt, Suunto Smart Belt

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
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