Suunto ZoneSense

[Brad_Olwin]

@Ze-Stuart A deep dive in the HRV data would be necessary, this would not be obvious from the HRV readings. Kanniainen et al. - 2023 - Estimation of physiological exercise thresholds based on dynamical correlation properties of heart r.pdf

[pilleus]

For me it seems to work correct (as far as I understood the YT video from Suunto).

Here two screenshots. The first from yesterday with a more anaerobic workout on the kickbike, the second from today with an aerobic and relaxed bike ride for recovery.

I had the live ZoneSense display with the option heart rate and ascent and I was able to react immediately by shifting one gear down at the moment the anaerobic state was displayed to come back into the aerobic state. No need to react to the heart rate.

[dulko79]

A new beta for ios just popped up. I did indoor cycling the other day, no ddfa index was calculated. Now I can see ddfa index chart in the app, even aerobic threshold was detected. I used garmin hrm pro chest strap for the activity. I connected the strap to vertical first then to zwift. It seems there has been improvement in the suunto zonesense.

[Ze Stuart]

@Brad_Olwin sure, it’d still be interesting to see it alongside the rest of the data.

ZS equivalent of IT troubleshooting steps 1 and 2: is it plugged in, did you turn it on?

[droopsio]

@droopsio said in Suunto ZoneSense:

Hi,

I have a problem with an app on the watch (Suunto Race S). As you may see on the photo, graphic widget display never changes from green to yellow/red - even in case, that I’m running with higher intensity.
After the workout is finished and saved, in the summary presented by app you can see, that I have been yellow/red zones, but it is never displayed on the watch while doing activity.

Additionally to this - for the whole time, I have a notice about warmup calibration.

Is it a bug for Race S series, or there’s something wrong with my watch?

In the example photo you’ll see, that some part of activity was made with higher intensity but it was never presented with marker and color (nor the stripe or edge).

@Brad_Olwin can you pls advise reg this problem? I did few more runs and each time it is the same - it seems, that it is not working with Race S or my wach?

[halajos]

@droopsio do you have any other Suunto+ activated or intensity target set? I had issues with ZoneSense when I tried to use different features at the same time.

[kriskus]

@mlakis I had very similar results. I can’t say that the intervals were short in my case - I did a 4x1200m session at around 4:00/km pace (that’s above my threshold pace). HR data seems correct (black line in the picture), while ZoneSense data shows the same as in your case. It goes down during the interval and high up during a 3’ pause between each session (green/yellow line). I was using Polar H10 sensor. Overall, this feature looks promising, but doesn’t give meaningful data as of yet or perhaps I don’t understand the idea of its functioning.

[Mff73]

@kriskus and others,
i noted the same, and i would love to understand how to use it (if usable )
there was here https://forum.suunto.com/post/155245 this mention about a 3min window.
Might we consider that ZS is indicating the past 3min reflect of our effort ?

[droopsio]

@halajos I have climb enabled, but before zone sens I’ve had also 2 S+ apps active. I don’t think that climb should interfere with ZS (?)

[kriskus]

@Mff73 Well, in my case it would probably be a little more. Each interval was around 5’ long and ZS only starts rising just before the 3’ pause. It looks just as if it was somewhat shifted vs HR.

[VoiGAS]

@kriskus Looks you have problems to reach the red zone - me too. Made a 3/9 minute FTP test today. In the All Out sections I thought I would spit my lungs out, but nothing red in Zonesense and also no VO2MAX threshold as I didn’t cross it

[herlas]

@kriskus such long delay is odd, haven’t seen that in my use of ZoneSense. 1200m reps almost fall in the short side for ZS to represent the accumulated fatigue but should be doable. In my experience, when talking intervals, about 800 meters in, it starts to show realistic effort levels. BTW it’s also known/expected that after quick changes of pace (from jogging to start of interval) ZS will drop to low green and then start going up as rep progresses.

Looks like your baseline collection (first 10 mins) were done in yellow already, recommendation is to go easy on those 10 initial mins, mostly aerobic to get a good baseline, when effort increases, it’s going to be compared against o that baseline if it was captured at all, otherwise previous day(s) captured baseline.

[Łukasz Szmigiel]

@VoiGAS try a medium speed 30 min run to reach base exhaustion and then slowly but steadily push towards limit for as long as you can.

[kriskus]

@herlas Well, the first ~2kms were in fact a warm-up, and all done in the green zone. My HR zones were set up after a performance test, though it’s been a while now and they might need light adjustment.

[kriskus]

@VoiGAS Actually, today’s run wasn’t meant to get to the red zone. Recently I did a treadmill run to get to my max and I reached the red zone in the end:

[herlas]

@kriskus 10 min warmup in green according to your current HR zones, I was talking about your ZoneSense data clearly shows it was yellow, so probably a tad quicker than the aerobic recommended warmup for ZS.

[halajos]

@Mff73 said in Suunto ZoneSense:

@kriskus and others,
i noted the same, and i would love to understand how to use it (if usable )
there was here https://forum.suunto.com/post/155245 this mention about a 3min window.
Might we consider that ZS is indicating the past 3min reflect of our effort ?

I’ve read the whitepaper and as far as I understood the calculation is based on various buckets of R-R intervals, with bucket sizes between 5…64 R-R intervals. This means the current DDFA index is calculated based on about the last 20…60 seconds of R-R data depending on the HR.

[Egika]

@halajos said in Suunto ZoneSense:

@Mff73 said in Suunto ZoneSense:

@kriskus and others,
i noted the same, and i would love to understand how to use it (if usable )
there was here https://forum.suunto.com/post/155245 this mention about a 3min window.
Might we consider that ZS is indicating the past 3min reflect of our effort ?

I’ve read the whitepaper and as far as I understood the calculation is based on various buckets of R-R intervals, with bucket sizes between 5…64 R-R intervals. This means the current DDFA index is calculated based on about the last 20…60 seconds of R-R data depending on the HR.

You are both right:
There is the Zonesense sampling rate, but more so your body. Zonesense is relying on a somewhat stable condition of your cardiovascular system. This is where the 3 mins come from. Quick changes in effort or power cannot be measured with a sampling rate of 0.5-1min.

Google sampling rate.

[mlakis]

@Egika, now we can speak.

The need for stable cardiovascular condition and the too slow sample rate, in addition to the first minutes where it calibrates, mean that ZoneSense can be a good test to determine zones, threshold etc, where the person to be tested is given instructions on what to do and how to structure his/her efforts.

For normal efforts like training, racing, free riding etc it seems a very unstable metric where you can draw no conclusion on what your heart/body is doing.

[Egika]

@mlakis it depends on the kind of training or race. If it is of endurance type >10km run or >1h duration, ZoneSense is a super valuable tool to keep your effort in the aerobic zone. HR zones can be off as they differ from day to day.

This is where the new technology really shines!
For my Sunday morning 5k run it is not useful.