Suunto ZoneSense
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@herlas yes and I did not post to complain I like the feature a lot and use it most of the time my point was just for people that complain maybe looking into their data could explain strange behiavior
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@stromdiddily, since we are talking about data/metrics, graph IS the data/metric, which should be the same during and after the workout.
If during a workout that is 1/2/5/24/72 hours ZS is showing nonsense in a large percentage of the duration in respect to when you could draw a useful conclusion, then it’s not useful.
HR, Power and their zones are metrics that give you insight about your effort further than your perception, even before you exert yourself. They go beyond perception.
A metric that shows me something meaningful 5% of the time that also agrees with my perception like when I can’t hit my usual numbers when it’s hot, if I am a bit ill, when I have overcooked myself the previous days or on the first hours of my activity etc, does not give me something useful, and also is misleading for the rest 95%.
So, I insist for graphs and an explanation on how HR or Power that are drawn/shown can’t help you in a better way than ZS can.
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@Brad_Olwin I actually rarely looking on my HR Zones too now . I run with Zonesense and rely on it. IMO it’s great. I used to look on my HR zones and this was a constant distraction. With Zonesense I just run and when I feel, that I might have changed to another zone I check the display and see if that’s the case (and it often corresponds) and then I adjust my tempo correspondingly. For me I consider it kind of a game changer.
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ZoneSense app has been updated on 10th October.
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@dulko79 Anyone know if it will automatically update on the next watch SuuntoPlus sync? Or do you need to remove and re-add it?
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@mlakis said in Suunto ZoneSense:
@Brad_Olwin, no graphs yet.
I want a graph of ZS/HR and an explanation of how ZS helped you better than HR to pace your effort, in respect also to how many times the ZS was showing nonsense and instead of helping you it was misleading you.
That’s what we are examining, what metric helps you better to pace you efforts.
So, graph please.
So, graphs are NOT helping me pace, looking at HR won’t matter because I do not gauge effort by HR. I keep trying to make this point ! I am solely basing effort on RPE when not using Zone Sense and now I am using ZS for pacing. My HR is irrelevant. I have now explained several times how ZS is helping me pace and I do not use HR so an HR graph will not help you to understand how I use ZS for managing my effort.
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@ChrisA exactly the point I am trying to make! Thanks!
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@stromdiddily said in Suunto ZoneSense:
@mlakis said in Suunto ZoneSense:
@stromdiddily graph please
I don’t understand your graphs requirement to validate pacing guidance DURING the effort. Post workout, my ZS aerobic hr was 135. That’s ten beats lower than my entered zone 2 primarily because it was hot as heck and I was at elevation.
If I would have followed the heart rate zone, more than likely I’m blowing up because I’m working way harder on that specific day than I was when I set my zones originally.
It was a 26.5 hour activity. My graph isn’t going to help you.
Thanks! This is exactly my point. Others here are trying to force a relationship where one does not exist. There are a lot of data demonstrating why HR, Pace and Power are poor determinants to use while assessing trail running effort especially during ultras!
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@mlakis These perceptions are incorrect! For trail running and ultras pace, power and HR are either poor measures of effort or absolutely unhelpful. For example, after 6h, 15h or 20h of an ultra HR is useless as you are dramatically increasing fatigue! Power is useless as sand,. Roots and rocks are not assessed by power, neither is the cost of eccentric contractions running downhill. Similarly, pace is useless as well. That is why most trail and ultra runners use RPE. Now we have ZS and I think a game changer as I can prevent myself from going too fast at the beginning and too hard uphill.
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@Josaiplu I am using a Suunto smart sensor belt. it is comfortable as the sensor is small.
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@Brad_Olwin, I am talking about cycling power using a power meter which is spot on, not running power which is a poor derived estimated metric by the watches.
So, we have arrived to the conclusion that ZS is useful for trail running efforts equal on over 6 hours.
That’s a progression to initial statements of where ZS is useful/meaningful.
Thanks.
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@Brad_Olwin it’s maybe a little bit too early but did you test zs when backcountry skiing? Looking forward to do it because especially on the way up it could help me to adjust my effort
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@far-blue said in Suunto ZoneSense:
@dulko79 Anyone know if it will automatically update on the next watch SuuntoPlus sync? Or do you need to remove and re-add it?
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@Mff73 Thanks for the link. I missed the original explanation post.
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@mlakis here’s a lot of graphs with explanation:
https://www.suunto.com/sports/News-Articles-container-page/introducing-zonesense-revolutionizing-intensity-insights-with-heart-stress-measurement/And you might watch the lecture that has a nice marathon example with graph: https://youtu.be/bD3O4BZ9vIc?si=KkS3NTd2Lp7eS1Qt
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For me Zonesense doesn’t work at all. Had the third run today with first warmup, then about 30 minutes all out, then pushing up a hill until maximum Heartrate - then cooldown.
HR Zones where about 50% red in this run
I can’t see how this values can be of any use -
@VoiGAS what is your setup? (Vertical + Suunto belt here and work surprisingly well)
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@mlakis there are great examples with cycling explained in the Suunto video. Have you watched it?
https://youtu.be/bD3O4BZ9vIc?si=wmJ2zJUIXQlp--NF -
@VoiGAS The warmup is not long enough for ZS and what are you looking for? What do you mean not working? What did the watch show? Your HR in the graph changes quite a bit and is not a steady value. An all out effort should ramp up HR then when done decline. The hill is much higher HR so prior to that cannot be all out.
Vector/T6c/Ambit 3 Peak/S5 Copper/S3/S7 Ti/S9 baro Ti/S9P Ti/S9PP Ti/Vertical Ti/Race Ti/RaceS/Ocean/Wing
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@VoiGAS
I’ve been following this thread because my experience (for running) is the same as you: the ZoneSense output is not useful or credible as a measure of intensity for me. To rely on it I would have to ignore the frequent contradiction with other data showing what I’m doing (speed, gradient etc), how I feel (RPE) and how my CV system is responding (HR).I’ve read the Suunto article and watched the video. I can’t see any examples - for running - where pace and/or HR wouldn’t have been as good or better than ddfa, based on the data in the charts. I expected to see use cases where ZoneSense gives actionable insights that HR, pace or other established metrics do not. Maybe I’ve missed them or misunderstood the data presented?
