Watch unusable in wind
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@taziden I’ve been writing about this problem here for a few years now (and so have other people), the problem is easy to repeat, it’s been present in several watches, and every discussion ends with some denial.
And there’s never been any analysis of the problem (not to mention improving the performance).I’ve stopped believing in the assurances of Suunto developers or testers for a long time now.
The same applies to contour lines, battery drain, and many other problems that haven’t been solved to this day. -
@maszop I got that feeling also, but only in recent years, when I joined it was more friendly, not sure what happened
To be on topic: you have to elaborate what strong wind is, for someone is 60kmh very strong when on top of mountain. Where I live we get wind gusts well above 100kmh and we are used to this, so it’s not so strong
I also encountered altitude problems, but only when wind gusts are above 100kmh (measured, not by feel) -
@Likarnik I wouldn’t write about it because I know how the barometric altimeter works and what effect the wind and other weather conditions can have, but since all my friends with Garmin watches have more or less correct data, it means that it can be done.
Especially since a simple filter is enough to remove the noise of the measurements. I have to filter Suunto measurements myself in external services to get correct data.
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@maszop said in Watch unusable in wind:
since all my friends with Garmin watches have more or less correct data, it means that it can be done
In a different thread on this forum I explained to you that my Garmin Forerunner 955 added ca 100 metres to the Asc/Desc while running in stormy weather, even though I was protected by a lot of trees in a wood. In this thread you claim that running is a fundamentally different activity than hiking or climbing when it comes to the baro sensor’s exposure and/or reaction to wind. Now you even offer up your friends ‘perfect’ Garmin sensors as proof that Suunto is doing everything wrong in the Altimeter area.
Well, since I have used Garmin watches since 2013, all * (except the FR70) with barometric altimeter capability and been an avid reader and sometime poster at the Garmin forums, I must say that you close your eyes to the broader reality. Garmin is well known for both the poor quality of precicely the baro sensor implementation - where it can fail within a year or two - and the poor quality of the software converting pressure to altitude. Every watch generation and branch (outdoors section or sports section) it is the same story: The altimetre complaints quickly surface in the forum postings.
- FR70, FR620, FR630, Fenix5X, FR955.
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@Inge-Nallsson Let me put it this way, I would rather have these 100m extra in Garmin than the current +1000m in Suunto.
Suunto measurements R and Strava data L:
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@maszop
thats really crazy -
@GiPFELKiND Usually there are a few hundred meters extra, sometimes over 1000, but there is also such madness as in that example. I am talking about approaches in very strong winds, of course.
In stable weather everything works perfectly.
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@maszop No you wouldn’t, because with Suunto you will know that is not correct but with Garmin you will always have doubts…jokes aside, I’m not saying that you do not have issues.
Can you share the SA graph where the spikes should apear? Have you tried to send logs to see if someone at Suunto can help with it to adjust the algorithm?
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@cosme-costa The Suunto graph:
https://i.postimg.cc/qMhcJDDr/Screenshot-20250128-114024.png -
I wrote about the same problem several months ago, on a strong windy day the total altitude reported by the Suunto App was quite overestimated:
the problem can be solved by exporting the GPX data from the SA and then import them into a smarter software that smooth out the data (for example I use Oruxmap, see details in the thread)
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@maszop said in Watch unusable in wind:
I would rather have these 100m extra in Garmin than the current +1000m in Suunto
The +100 metres were on top of the normal Asc/Desc of ca 160 metres, so not an insignificant error.
Look, no one denies that you are having problems. But I strongly object to a blanket whitewashing of any company when trying to prove a point, and most certainly when it comes to such a finicky area as altitude.
Case in point (and another n=1 example): My FR955, bought in september 2023, is at firmware 19.18 which is two versions (soon to be three, ie 9 months) behind current stable. This because amongst the many bugs introduced by Garmin lately is one which randomly gives you Zero (0, null, zilch) altitude gain/loss during the whole activity. Flat as a pancake runs… But even with this old FW version I lately - before switching to the Race S full time - experienced the Garmin ‘about-to-fail’ sensor problem. Short, 6-7 km total, out and back runs on the most level path in my area had eg “Total Ascent 79 m. Total Descent 66 m” whereas the true figures should read an even 20 metres.
But you won’t find me wailing about that anywhere. 'Tis the way of penny-pinching companies, and I’ve already voted with my feet (for this training cycle).
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@Inge-Nallsson I use Suunto, not Garmin, and I don’t care that much what Garmin does. Especially on the Suunto forum. I only see data from Garmin users and they don’t have such crazy measurements as in the case of Suunto.
The complete collapse of Suunto is fact that current the most advanced Suunto watches with an advanced barometric altimeter and many years on the market can provide much worse data than the simplest cheap phone with only GPS.
For Suunto developers, this should be embarrassing.I think that further discussion is pointless because we have been writing the same thing for years and years go by and nothing happens.
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@maszop said in Watch unusable in wind:
I use Suunto, not Garmin, and I don’t care that much what Garmin does. Especially on the Suunto forum.
@maszop said in Watch unusable in wind:
Let me put it this way, I would rather have these 100m extra in Garmin than the current +1000m in Suunto.
@maszop said in Watch unusable in wind:
I know how the barometric altimeter works and what effect the wind and other weather conditions can have, but since all my friends with Garmin watches have more or less correct data, it means that it can be done
I’m confused.
That said, I guess we’ve already reached garbage time here for a while.
No one here has ever tried to “obscure” criticism, but there’s no constructive discussion if everything other people say is just “bullshit” or “fake”.@maszop, no one here is trying to sell anything to you, this is a Community Forum.
If you’re not okay with your Suunto watch, you can return it, sell it, or switch brand.
I mean, just find the one you enjoy and enjoy it. -
@maszop said in Watch unusable in wind:
@cosme-costa The Suunto graph:
https://i.postimg.cc/qMhcJDDr/Screenshot-20250128-114024.pngThe spikes are clearly the issue. I do believe you and it is apparent but…. I rarely, rarely see this with any of my watches. Can you contact me by PM? I am going to going to ask the test group. I think this issue is not common, at least for me. I may ask to collect some files.
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@Brad_Olwin said in Watch unusable in wind:
The spikes are clearly the issue.
the algorithm that calculates all the related quantities (altitude gain, loss, etc …) should include a running average to smooth out the altitude data, to eliminate the spikes if any.
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@Stefano-M64 said in Watch unusable in wind:
@Brad_Olwin said in Watch unusable in wind:
The spikes are clearly the issue.
the algorithm that calculates all the related quantities (altitude gain, loss, etc …) should include a running average to smooth out the altitude data, to eliminate the spikes if any.
if you use the search feature here, you’ll find that the folks on the forum actually helped with the algo ended up in use for the S9B when it first came out. There is some pretty open dialogue about what the underlying metric actually looks like
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@Stefano-M64 interestingly enough, the more you smooth and correct, the more you end up losing real-time metrics like pace or vertical speed
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@maszop said in Watch unusable in wind:
I think that further discussion is pointless because we have been writing the same thing for years and years go by and nothing happens.
Actually, just at the end of last year me and others provided Suunto with activity data for the same use case you have, bad weather (and wind in particular) affecting the ascent/descent calculation.
I believe it has not been prioritized because it happens to only some, and not always, and there is always something more urgent to fix. -
@isazi said in Watch unusable in wind:
@Stefano-M64 interestingly enough, the more you smooth and correct, the more you end up losing real-time metrics like pace or vertical speed
a good algorithm should be able to process raw data by eliminating noise and spurious values. Of course, that depends also on the kind of activity. For “slow” activities as walking or hiking data smoothing over 1 minute should give good results. It happens relatively often that SA gives altitude related metrics that are overestimated, only by importing the gpx data into an app (I use OruxMaps) that allow to the filter the data I get values that agree with the expected ones.
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@isazi Improving this current algorithm is essential - current measurements are often completely useless.
Yesterday’s example:
Suunto Vertical measurements -1502m:
Strava data - 1083m:
Garmin Fenix 7 - 1157m:
Suunto data after smoothing - 1198m:
It seems that the measurements from Garmin 7 look the best.
Suunto measurements - better not to even comment on that.